[arocoun]

Some recent news programs I'd watched have made me think about the subject of immigration.

Before you complain about immigrants stealing your jobs and tax money, consider this. By far, the worst immigrants to America were our venerated European forefathers, who stole the very lives and land of this land's original people and animals, and caused great pain even to their own people (especially their women). Both all you other Americans and I myself still benefit from their tyranny (not to mention our own tyranny, in which we gain our immense wealth by practically forcing people--both within and outside this country--to make our goods for practically nothing).

What gives us, of all people, the moral right to be so angry at the poor Mexican immigrants, either legal or illegal, who just want a better life? It's worse than the pot calling the kettle black, because in this case, the kettle's looking a light shade of gray to me.

[Tyler_JC]

So we let them come here and have Americans working for next to nothing?

This may hurt your feelings and the feelings of any Native Americans who may read this, so my apologies in advance.

I DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHO WE HAVE TAKE STUFF FROM IN ORDER TO KEEP MORE OF US (American CITIZENS) ALIVE!

Illegals are ruining this country. They are turning the SW into a dump. They are drinking OUR water. They are eating OUR food. They are taking OUR jobs. And they are NOT paying OUR taxes. Enough of this liberal crap, they are OUR resources and we deserve to keep them. We are going to have a die off because you morons encouraged lots of immigration and "diversity". CONGRATS, WE GET TO DIE ALONG WITH THEM SO THAT YOU COULD FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF!

And you dare to tell me that I don't care about people? I care a lot about MY fellow tax-paying, law-abiding, English-speaking, God-fearing (or not, w/e), citizens. This is a game of survival, the guy with 50 illegals in his life boat will die and I don't want to be in that life boat.

Without illegal immigration, the population of the USA would decrease to a sustainable level and we could invest in renewable energy + earth-friendly...stuff. But now we have to build schools, roads, hospitals, and houses for all of these new people instead of improving the quality of life for US citizens.

Sorry, I felt the need to rant.

[arocoun]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler', 'W')e are going to have a die off because you morons encouraged lots of immigration and "diversity". CONGRATS, WE GET TO DIE ALONG WITH THEM SO THAT YOU COULD FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF!

[0mar]

People like JC deserve to be locked up in concentration camps and fed zyklon B.

[Vexed]

Omar wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eople like JC deserve to be locked up in concentration camps and fed zyklon B.

[Tyler_JC]

Interesting reactions. I was expecting to get a crazy rant in return. Instead we appear to have a fairly decent group of people in this forum.

But the basic fact remains. Illegal immigration is putting a drain on our ability to maintain a high standard of living. Sustainability won't be achieved unless we can get our population under control. Illegal immigration only makes that goal more difficult.

And by the way, when did protecting the borders of a nation become associated with Nazism?
I’m just wondering…

[Licho]

Erm drain? Aren't they doing the jobs that are soo poorly paid no other american would dare to do? They allow you to keep your high standard, because they decrease price of certain services you enjoy.. And who said they don't pay taxes? Even if they don't pay income taxes, most of the income comes from other taxes, like VAT, which is impossible to avoid for them. So what is your problem again?

[trespam]

I think that immigration should be controlled. Just as I think borders should be controlled. And nations defended. And trade regulated. But I'm not sure that we can heap all our problems on the shoulders of the immigrants. Now on free trade. Though both deserve some blame.

Unless you are Native American, you are the descendants of immigrants. They've always been blamed. Oh, what a wonderful land this would have been if all those damn English and Spanish had not arrived. Well, it's too late. And it's too late for a lot of the Mexicans who have immigrated, oftentimes back to places that we STOLE from Mexico.

A lot of the Chinese and Indian immigrants living in this country are doctors, scientists, and engineers. They've come here to our universities to study topics that many Americans seem unable or uninterested in studying. So just as we have uneducated immigrants coming into the country, many illegally (which should be controlled), we have legal immigrants coming here to do things that native Americans seem unwilling or unable to do.

So we can't just blame the immigrants. Nor trade. We should control both. But there are also a lot of fat ass americans sitting on their lazy butts not contributing anywhere near what immigrants are contributing.

[BigBuck]

Who owns the world? These days governments think they own it since you need to have their permission to move freely about, and the respective citizens seem to heavily support the idea that government should pick and choose who is let in and who is expelled.

Of course the territorial nature of man is part of the problem, hence all these bizarre and inconsistent rules about who legal and who is not.

My view is that people should be free to move about the planet as they please, so long as they do not commit acts of agression against others. I think that staunch nationalist are suffering personality maladjustment. In the process of forming thier identity they fail to reach individuality and instead think of themselves as part of a group. The identity crisis of teenage years is part of personality formation and some individuals get stuck in the gang stage and never progress to become full human beings.

[Licho]

I know many people who have been working in USA, most of them legally. They were all university students coming to USA for some seasonal work during holidays and then coming back. I don't know anyone who did actually move to USA permanently (And it's not even possible to move to USA legally, you won't get long-term visa unless you win in some crazy green card lotery that costs several salaries . Students can make there in 2 months more than here during several years All of them were either law or medicine students, hard working and sucessfull at the subject they studied, but still went to USA to do some low-class job for "little" money..
Even I, with ongoing phd would earn more money cleaning some wal-mart than I earn here right now, as a programmer and specialist for xbox, working on titles you might actually play back there Even given current unfavourable dollar exchange rate to euro, I earn $4.9 per hour, much much less than I would get for same work in USA.. weird world I say..
And yes, immigration should be regulated.. as strange as it sounds, many people consider illegal immigration a serious problem here as well.. People from Ukraine or Russia and Yugoslavia often come here, because they can make much more money here than back home..
Weird weird world..

And studying at US university is very distant dream, costs are far too high. Yes, some rare brilliant minds can study for free, for them, road is open, but for the rest .. no way.. USA is well built fortress, I don't understand how so many immigrants actually manage to relocate there.. I guess too many are trying to

[Phil]

Having lived in Texas for 90% of my life, I've seen first hand the ill effects of illegal Mexican immigration. The reason Mexico is a third world country is because it's full of Mexicans, of whom the vast majority could be considered "anti-intellectual."

[Cynus]

If being anti-intellectual is what makes a place a third-world country, then shouldn't the U.S. be considered one as well

[stu]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cynus', 'I')f being anti-intellectual is what makes a place a third-world country, then shouldn't the U.S. be considered one as well

[Phil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f being anti-intellectual is what makes a place a third-world country, then shouldn't the U.S. be considered one as well?

[stu]

Surely IQ tests are the wrong way to judge intelligence. I'm studying a degree in Journalism and I can constantly beat my little brother in General Knowledge quizs. However he has beaten me when it comes to IQ tests.

Explain?

[Kingcoal]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')nteresting reactions. I was expecting to get a crazy rant in return. Instead we appear to have a fairly decent group of people in this forum.

[0mar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'A')nd by the way, when did protecting the borders of a nation become associated with Nazism?
I’m just wondering…

[Licho]

regarding smart fraction..

Performance in standard IQ tests can often be improved by slightly better educational system (that covers more population) and even by simple courses that teach you basic principles these tests are using.
I wouldn't count much on them..
It's not a good way to measure one's potential.. (There is no good way I think..).
Also, I have just recently seen another study that included average IQ of same countries, and figures there were very very different from those presented, so study wouldn't conclude same results with these data..

[Licho]

Dependency could also work in opposite direction if you have high per capita GDP, you can afford better educational system, higher literacy and sonsequently achieve higher national average IQ.

[tdrive]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Licho wrote:
People from Ukraine or Russia and Yugoslavia often come here,