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Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby clueless » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 14:05:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')If you look throughout all of history, you cannot find an example of that


Oh really - I don't have time to do the research but how many famines and die-offs have occured through history due to natural resource depletion ?

I don't have time to look into this but you are sorely mistaken and utterly clueless. And furthermore look what is happening in Mexico: here

And how many countries are starving because they cannot generate enough phony dollars (the we print) to buy fuel to run farm implemments.

You are a moron - Can we move this to the hall of flame ? In other words as long as we in the good ole Us of A can continue our profilegate ways, to hell with the poor people of the world right oil_rocks ??? Just wait my friend, you and your video game playing buddies are going to get a taste of how the rest of the world works, and not to mention your baby boomer parents. I may be wrong at the profile but I guess you to be somewhere in your mid to late 20's with no ability to envision a way of life that more resembles how most of the world and all of our previous generations have lived...


Where are you getting your information oil_rocks ? MSN ???
Last edited by clueless on Tue 30 Jan 2007, 14:42:20, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby clueless » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 14:09:20

And who is this Ted Dansen guy ?

Is he the guy that was on Cheers ? oil_rocks I think you need to turn off the TV (and the computer).

Why on earth would someone trying to have an intelligent discussion quote someone like Ted Dansen.
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby Dreamtwister » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 14:35:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil_rocks', 'I')'m a computer programmer by trade.


That says it all, right there.

What exactly is it that qualifies you to dismiss the findings of the DOE, the DOD and literally hundreds of accredited geologists, economists, physicists and engineers backed up with ~150 years worth of data?





























That's what I thought.
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The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby 128shot » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 14:36:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '
')

The problem with the Camborne 'hot rocks' project wasn't so much in drilling the holes - existing technology is adequate - it was creating and dealing with the underground fracturing needed for a decent flow. This was a whole new area of research and wasn't helped by the fact that the granite on-site was already intensively fractured.

Geothermal reasearch is still ongoing around the world, but I believe the challanges involved in using sites like Camborne for large-scale power production are similar in scale to those facing fusion research. The technology has long-term potential but you can get old and grey waiting for it to happen...

JPL


Fusion seems like a simple pipe dream.


Geothermal I have more hope for.

What about the use of sterling engines ontop of " hot spots" instead of the traditional ways of using geothermal energy.


One must wonder why Iceland doesn't try and become the worlds leading energy exporter via hydrogen...then again according to this forum's general attitude its "impossible" :roll:

On that note, is Iceland the best country to be in post peak?
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby Dreamtwister » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 14:43:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('128shot', 'O')ne must wonder why Iceland doesn't try and become the worlds leading energy exporter via hydrogen...then again according to this forum's general attitude its "impossible" :roll:


Image

Long-distance, bulk hydrogen transportation is a pipe dream as well. Geothermal steam turbines could be good for a few gigawatts though.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby 128shot » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 14:46:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('128shot', 'O')ne must wonder why Iceland doesn't try and become the worlds leading energy exporter via hydrogen...then again according to this forum's general attitude its "impossible" :roll:


Image

Long-distance, bulk hydrogen transportation is a pipe dream as well. Geothermal steam turbines could be good for a few gigawatts though.



well, this isn't the 1930s....


We have more effective ways to transport dangerous materials in bulk.

Liquid natural gas provides a good example, it used to be thought it was to dangerous to be done.

Well, turns out it wasn't.
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby clueless » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 14:47:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '1')28shot wrote:
One must wonder why Iceland doesn't try and become the worlds leading energy exporter via hydrogen...then again according to this forum's general attitude its "impossible"


I hope this guy is kidding...

How do you store or transport something like Hydrogen in any mass quanitities ? Isn't it stored at >400 f ?
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby clueless » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 14:50:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')ell, this isn't the 1930s....


We have more effective ways to transport dangerous materials in bulk.

Liquid natural gas provides a good example, it used to be thought it was to dangerous to be done.

Well, turns out it wasn't.


According PM's I have spoken to they are building 2 LNG ports in the next 10 years, which are most likely heavily subsidzed by the ifederal govt.

And the cost of the gas produced will most likely be $25 per cubic foot. Which means an increase of fivefold in the average consumers power bills. That will keep the consumer nation running !!!!
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby 128shot » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 14:55:23

Hey. Its better than not trying at all isn't it?



Pessimists never get anything done. Certainly, I would rather try and fail than not try and never know what potential there is.

I think this forum needs some positivity..
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby clueless » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 14:58:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ey. Its better than not trying at all isn't it?



Pessimists never get anything done. Certainly, I would rather try and fail than not try and never know what potential there is.

I think this forum needs some positivity..


I am very postive about many things:

Eliminating greed, Caring for the poor, reprogramming the current genreration to not be so selfish.

Continuing the fantasy and lie that we can continue being the most selfish generation in the history of the world is not simething I am postive about.
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby UncoveringTruths » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 14:59:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('128shot', 'H')ey. Its better than not trying at all isn't it?



Pessimists never get anything done. Certainly, I would rather try and fail than not try and never know what potential there is.

I think this forum needs some positivity..


If this is the best that the naysayers can come up with then...

We are positivitely screwed! How's that?
It's a cold cold world when a man has to pawn his shoes.
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby 128shot » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 15:02:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ey. Its better than not trying at all isn't it?



Pessimists never get anything done. Certainly, I would rather try and fail than not try and never know what potential there is.

I think this forum needs some positivity..


I am very postive about many things:

Eliminating greed, Caring for the poor, reprogramming the current genreration to not be so selfish.

Continuing the fantasy and lie that we can continue being the most selfish generation in the history of the world is not simething I am postive about.



if you think for a minute thats what its about, being "another more selfish generation" then you certainly shouldn't go around telling others they don't know anything.

Its about actually trying to solve problems. Actually wanting to solve problems. Its about hope.


I wish everyone here who wants the future to crash just admitted openly they want civilization to crash and burn as fast as fucking possible.

Really, it'd be a lot more clear than beating around the bush about it eh?
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby clueless » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 15:09:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i')f you think for a minute thats what its about, being "another more selfish generation" then you certainly shouldn't go around telling others they don't know anything.

Its about actually trying to solve problems. Actually wanting to solve problems. Its about hope.


I wish everyone here who wants the future to crash just admitted openly they want civilization to crash and burn as fast as fucking possible.

Really, it'd be a lot more clear than beating around the bush about it eh?


This is what amazes me about cornucopians - They use terms like postive and negative instead of true and false. I don't live in a world of pos and neg only t or f...

You think more is better, I say less is better.

You believe the future will hold more, I say it will hold less.

The difference between me an you an oil_rocks is :

If the future holds more then great. If it holds less, I will be prepared whereas you will be devestated. And furthermore, you and oil_rocks have no hard facts to base your thesis on, whereas my facts are indisputable.

You guys worship the god of technology - I say technology is a joke and without raw materials are useless.
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby 128shot » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 15:15:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i')f you think for a minute thats what its about, being "another more selfish generation" then you certainly shouldn't go around telling others they don't know anything.

Its about actually trying to solve problems. Actually wanting to solve problems. Its about hope.


I wish everyone here who wants the future to crash just admitted openly they want civilization to crash and burn as fast as fucking possible.

Really, it'd be a lot more clear than beating around the bush about it eh?


This is waht amazes me about cornucopians - They use terms like postive and negative instead of true and false. I don't live in a world of pos and neg only t or f...

You think more is better, I say less is better.

You beleive the future will hold more, I say it will hold less.

The difference between me an you an oil_rocks is :

If the future holds more then great. If it holds less, I will be prepared whereas you will be devestated. And furthermore, you and oil_rocks have no hard facts to base your thesis on, whereas my facts are indisputable.

You guys worship the god of technology - I say technology is a joke and without raw materials are useless.



Implying you mean blind faith in a techno-solution future, I think you're being quite a bit foolish.


I'd rather be wrong and devastated than NOT TRY. Why? because I refuse to take no as an answer.

I can't dispute the geological facts of peak oil, you're correct.

What I refuse to accept is the end of the world mentality. Its bullshit, because we have not exhausted every last option.

Do I want "more" ? Are you saying I'm looking for a perpetual growth machine?


When the fossil fuel age ends, either my way or yours, one this is for certain, "limitless growth", will be a fallacy.
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby Dreamtwister » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 15:16:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('128shot', 'W')e have more effective ways to transport dangerous materials in bulk.


And which of those "more effective ways" will work for hydrogen? Liquid hydrogen has to be stored at -253C. Plus, hydrogen atoms are so small, they can actually escape between the molecules of the containment vessle, resulting in a leak. And let's not even get started on what happens when hydrogen interacts with the carbon contained in steel.

The only other options of which I'm aware involve storing it as a metal hydride, such as magnesium hydride (finite material), or hydrogen clathrate hydrate (requires 20,000 atmospheres to create)

So if you've got another method for storing hydrogen *safely*, we're all ears. So are a lot of other people who are frantically working on solving this very problem.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby clueless » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 15:31:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd which of those "more effective ways" will work for hydrogen? Liquid hydrogen has to be stored at -253C. Plus, hydrogen atoms are so small, they can actually escape between the molecules of the containment vessle, resulting in a leak. And let's not even get started on what happens when hydrogen interacts with the carbon contained in steel.

The only other options of which I'm aware involve storing it as a metal hydride, such as magnesium hydride (finite material), or hydrogen clathrate hydrate (requires 20,000 atmospheres to create)

So if you've got another method for storing hydrogen *safely*, we're all ears. So are a lot of other people who are frantically working on solving this very problem.


NICE !
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby 128shot » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 15:31:23

http://www.netpublikationer.dk/um/6567/ ... pter12.htm


this would appear to show promise.


The use of Nanotubes is being explored for this as well.


There is another interesting way of possible storage.

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/84/i47/8447notw8.html
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby clueless » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 15:33:55

In thirty years we may be able to retrofit, mass produce and store enough hydrogen to run a city with 100k people. AFter than we can retrofit the whole world !

WOW - Now that's pretty promising.
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby 128shot » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 15:39:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'I')n thirty years we may be able to retrofit, mass produce and store enough hydrogen to run a city with 100k people. AFter than we can retrofit the whole world !

WOW - Now that's pretty promising.



hell of a lot more promising than anything you have to offer.
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil

Postby clueless » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 15:44:41

You don't know what I have to offer. How about living in country whose goal is to give rather than consume ? Imagine how much better of a place it would be.

That is my solution - People start caring more for others and their well being as opposed to how much "I" can get.
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