$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('128shot', 'u')nfettered economic growth is not really an option. regardless of peak oil, there are other mineral resources that need to be preserved.
Thats part of the solution though, isn't it? A change in mind, a change in life style...
We will certainly need a change of lifestyle. But it is not a solution, because it will, by definition, not allow current lifestyles to go on. It is adapting to the circumstances. People like oil_rocks don't want to adapt to circumstances because they find the idea unpalatable. You seemed to be suggesting that we try things that might be solutions (to continuing our lifestyles) because that's the only way to know for sure that they won't work. But I don't think a solution is possible and, from the quote above, neither do you. So there is no point in putting effort into non-solutions. We need to put effort into changing our lifestyles completely. And, if economic growth can't continue indefinitely, then some of that effort should be directed towards working out a new society that doesn't require economic growth. Knowing what we know about finite resources, to do anything else would be crazy. But then humans have always been a little crazy.
PeakOil is You
Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil
I've always been under the perception that sometimes a solution involves change..
I don't want the much positive parts of our lifestyle to end, but exceeding our limits too far will have unpredictable consequences (look at climate change, for example)
I don't think what is common around here, the whole "must be self sufficient in order to survive, society to collapse in t minus 5 years" is a very good way to see life, don't you think?
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil
by gego » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 18:56:34
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil_rocks', '
')
Gego, this quote shows you have a good understanding of human behavior. While i applaud those who are learning farm techniques as a way of being proactive, you better hope your doomsday scenarios do not play out. If you think for 1 second that the world will end up with a few "smart ones" living in luxury on their own farms, while the masses simply die away of starvation, then you are sadly mistaken. If only the human race was that civil.
')
Gego, this quote shows you have a good understanding of human behavior. While i applaud those who are learning farm techniques as a way of being proactive, you better hope your doomsday scenarios do not play out. If you think for 1 second that the world will end up with a few "smart ones" living in luxury on their own farms, while the masses simply die away of starvation, then you are sadly mistaken. If only the human race was that civil.
I think that survival is about advantage. There are no guarantees, just probabilities, and I think that someone positioned on the 20th floor of an apartment in New York City has less of a probability of surviving a 30 year economic/social collapse than someone living in in the backwoods of nowhere USA with access to the basics like water, food, and shelter. The idea that rural folk are easy plunder for armed gangs is a movie fantasy. I would say the reality is that we hillbillies are better armed, better supplied, and more oriented toward mutual defense than any others, plus the backwoods is less likely to be a target of government thugs than more productive agricultural land. Hell, most of the state highways around here were still dirt roads back in the 1950's, and plenty of the back roads still are.
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Re: Sorry, No such thing as Peak Oil
by oil_rocks » Tue 30 Jan 2007, 20:42:30
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', '{')graph image}
Your graphic make me chuckle a little bit and perfectly illustrates the points I have been trying to make. My whole point is that every generation past, present and future will always believe that they are currently sitting at the "Peak oil Crisis point". If you look at your graphic, it shows exponential growth in oil production until the year 2006, and then shows a dramatic decline. What you have done is used actual stats to get the graph to today's date, and then used "scientific projections" to continue the graphs.
The only problem is the exact same chart was produced 10 years ago, except it showed the STEEP falloff occuring around 1997. And in 10 years you will again see ethe same chart, but the decline will mysteriously start at the year 2017. Trust me on this. you can wait and see if you like.
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