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Comparison of USSR collapse and USA collapse

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Comparison of USSR collapse and USA collapse

Unread postby jesus_of_suburbia_old » Mon 04 Dec 2006, 21:52:36

Well, that was a fucking bummer.
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Re: Comparison of USSR collapse and USA collapse

Unread postby Pretorian » Tue 05 Dec 2006, 00:40:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'H')yperinflation happened later, 1992-1993. 10000% inflation in 1993
...So you see it wasnt that bad.


No offense, but that sounds very bad to me.

In the Orlov link Loki posted, it seems to me the people who fared best were those who lived in the country and had tangible assets such as tractors, cars, land, family, and good neighbors.



Sure they did. I think very few, if any, had their own tractors. But those with cars could do real business-- buying things here and selling them there. One could make a month salary in a few hours potentially. At one moment in my region the best business was to bring coal to the villages and take pigs/cows out of there for retail in the city. returns were 200-300% and more , with a day or two of trouble.
there is a story I've heard once, two guys wennt to the village , bought a cow/calf, paid the owner for slaughter/cutting work, and when they came for meat the owner said he couldnt do it. And these guys have never killed a cow or pig ever before and didnt have any idea how to do it. So it took them 15-20 minutes to kill the poor cow. It did resist, so they got some too. Very soon their pickup truck broke, and all they could find was an old very small car, which looks something like an old beetle or fiat. The trunk obviously wasnt big enough at all, so they put plastic covers on seats and had bloody meat and guts all over the car.
And, they got stopped by police. In the middle of the night. A cop flashed their bloody and scratchy faces with crazy hair, than flashlighted the backseats, and fainted/collapsed. His colleages saw him falling, and assumed that the driver shot him, so they jump out of the car with AK-47s , and were very close to empty their magazines into this car. Well luckily those guys spend the rest of the night kissing the road, till experts arrived in the late morning.
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Re: Comparison of USSR collapse and USA collapse

Unread postby jesus_of_suburbia_old » Tue 05 Dec 2006, 18:09:51

Dmitry says that the privatized, profit driven healthcare system of the US will wither away with the economy and reduce us into folk remedies. Should PO aware healthcare practioners in the US look into exiting the country to somewhere healthcare is government funded?

I currently studying to be a respiratory therapist. I don't know many folk remedies for what I am being trained to put into practice. I suspect the demand for my knowledge and skills will still exist. With increased pollution and a decrease in the availabilty of heating and proper sanitation. Chronic respiratory illnesses should skyrocket. Check out this article about the top ten most polluted cities in the world; very disturbing.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')There are places where life expectancy approaches medieval rates, where birth defects are the norm not the exception, where children's asthma rates are measured above 90%, and where mental retardation is endemic," the report says.

BBC

The closest, English speaking country with a gov. funded system of healthcare,that employs respiratory therapists (relatively new field) is Canada.
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Re: Comparison of USSR collapse and USA collapse

Unread postby Pretorian » Wed 20 Dec 2006, 01:55:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daculling', 'P')retorian, thank you for your insight. Was there a weapon for every man, woman and child in the hands of the citizenry?

I think you know where I'm going here... our outcome might be very different, but I agree... worse.


I decided to revive a little an old thread as I got an award for it :))
and there are a few questions I forgot to answer.

So, guns. :)
No, there are were no guns at all for the citizenry. But every man starting 14-15 could arm and disarm an AK-47 within I am not sure how many seconds. It was a part of a highschool program. Surprisingly to buy an AK-47 was more expensive than to do it here in states. It cost probably $1000-2000 to buy from a military base, while here in states you had Chinese copies for $400, which are good enough to shoot a magazine or two.
There is also a 5 year prison time for owning a gun, equal for those who have a 19th centuary shooter or 20 mashine guns.
Well , the cheapest gun you could get I think it was a Makarov, $200-300 ( still a lot of money )
I was offered to buy an UZI with 2 magazines ( $800 ) when I was I think 15-16.
So there are were no guns but they were available for everyone.
After the 1991 there was no taxation system, so multiple groups of ex-sportsmen, cons of all sorts were taxing businesses instead. 10-20% rate usually, but they were taking care of many business related problems. I was doing amateur boxing in 1992-1996 and I doubt I knew anyone in my sport who didnt have an entry-level offer to 1 of such groups.
As soon as tax system started to work, many members and especially leaders of these groups were killed either by cops who wanted to take their place ( but were too late ) or each other becouse of shrinking income possibilities. Those groups who survived went to business themselves, started to privatize factories and stuff for a small bribe , some just concentrated on drug dealing, debts collection, ets. Richest guy in Ukraine, muslim Rinat Akhmetov( $4-6 bln? ) is one of those survived leaders, and he doesnt even deny it on public.
Do you remember all that fuzz about crooked presidential elections in Ukraine a year or so ago? Thats his business. He made his puppet a governor in the region, than a prime-minister, than almost a president ( noone actually expected that people will go on the streets ) and now the same puppet is a prime-minister again, with more power than before.
Last edited by Pretorian on Wed 20 Dec 2006, 02:15:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Comparison of USSR collapse and USA collapse

Unread postby Pretorian » Wed 20 Dec 2006, 02:14:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jesus_of_suburbia', 'D')mitry says that the privatized, profit driven healthcare system of the US will wither away with the economy and reduce us into folk remedies. Should PO aware healthcare practioners in the US look into exiting the country to somewhere healthcare is government funded?




I am sure if PO is far enough healthcare can become government funded here too. The thing is that you will not like the funding.
So far US is the most rewarding place in the world to practice medicine/dentistry/pharmacy. I'd say make your money here and now, and let inflation to take care about your debts.
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Re: Comparison of USSR collapse and USA collapse

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Wed 20 Dec 2006, 05:56:01

Pretorian,
You had presented many insightful posts regarding Soviet collapse.
You suggest, that US collapse could be worst (more messy), as people are expecting from government far more, than Russians did.
I cannot agree with you on this account.
I think, that US collapse will look more like Weimar Republic collapse.
People will still expect more and more from government and government will ask for more and more powers & authority in exchange. This process had already beginned.
Within not too long time US will have an intrusive authoritarian government, something like Hitler had setted in 1933.
All freedoms will go down a drain, but the party will keep going for few more years at least. I would not rely on inflation to take care of my debt under that scenario, as a result would probably be an extremely miserable one.
More and more idiotic decisions in respect to international policy will be taken, more and more hopeless wars will be started up to the point when most of nukes on the world will be fired within few minutes or hours.
Than you will have your collapse, but it will be a weird one.
For those, who survive (and there will be a lot of them contrary to "all dead" popular belief) all the world as we know it will fall apart.
Great majority of cities will cease to exist and lawless life environment comparable to this observed in Soviet population centres will not come to existance. That is, because this kind of life can go well only in large population groups (and those will be gone...). Smaller communities will quickly eliminate pathological elements in one way or another and without much undue difficulty.
For these reasons you will observe collapse of US to a large set of smaller or larger communities, often hostile to each other.
There will be also a plenty of "Wild West" areas.
All that is likely to evaluate towards something like "postcivilization feudal system" with time.
Modern economy will probably never revive, as fossil fuels will no longer be there to facilitate it, but if it does revive, it will take many centuries or even millenia perhaps.
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