[Loki]

Haven't seen this posted, so excuse if this is a repost. Dmitry Orlov makes an interesting comparison of the collapse of the Soviet Union and the (coming?) collapse of the US. He makes some good points, though he seems to go out of his way to emphasize the negative aspects of the American situation. Definitely worth a read nonetheless.

Closing the Collapse Gap

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')y conclusion is that the Soviet Union was much better-prepared for economic collapse than the United States is.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')omparison of USSR collapse and USA collapse

[PolestaR]

Comparing the USSR collapse to a possible USA one is like comparing a dead cow to a "gimme gimme gimme" tantrum throwing 3 year old. Soviets had less population, less dependence, housing which wasn't on "loan" etc. Take away something from a spoilt 3 year old and watch them get violent. Take away something from a dead cow and it doesn't care, it didn't need it anyhow.

I liked how Dmitry said it would be "interesting" watching the USA collapse.

[ohanian]

USSR collapse because its enemies driven it to economic bankruptcy

USA will collapse because its enemies is driving it to economic bankruptcy

There is no comparison. It's like comparing apple with oranges.

[Pretorian]

I've lived through USSR's collapse. Afganistan was just one of the many reasons why it collapsed. The life started to get worse every year after another in 1985, when your beloved Gorby came to power. In my memory it started when the state unified mass-transit fares "to ease the working class life" i.e in my city bus-fare was 5 copecks, tram-ways were 3 copecks, and trolley-buses ( those buses on electricity ) were 4 copecks per ride. So they issued a unified ticket good for any transport with a pricetag of 5 copecks. You could buy a box of matches for 1 copeck, a phonecall from the street was 2 copecks, a simple bun was 3 copecks,, yummy one with fine flour and raisins- 9 copecks, a loaf of bread 18-25 copecks, 1 kW of electricity- 4 copecks, a phone bill for a month- 1 rouble, dinner for two in a restaurant -4-6 roubles ( no alcohol ), foreign chewing gum 1-2 roubles, a bottle of vodka- 10 roubles , jeans- 100 roubles, VCR-- 5-10.000 roubles. Later the ticket went to 15 copecks , and by 1993 it was 50.000 roubles (heavily dotated from the state ).
From 1985 to 2000 every year was worse than previous one.
feel free to ask any question, by the way.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohanian', 'U')SSR collapse because its enemies driven it to economic bankruptcy

USA will collapse because its enemies is driving it to economic bankruptcy

There is no comparison. It's like comparing apple with oranges.

[TommyJefferson]

So it was actually hyper-inflation that wrecked the communists' hold on govenrment?

[Pretorian]

Hyperinflation happened later, 1992-1993. 10000% inflation in 1993 wasnt as bad as 20-30% inflation in 1994-- people stopped buying things.
As for Soviet inflation, last steps ( 1991 ) were:
--declaring one Friday evening that 50 and 100 rouble notes will be invalid by Monday; funny huh?--january
--freezing bank accounts ( all in $ and no more than 500 roubles a month for rouble accounts ) and simultanious increasing prices for everything by 20-100%-- 2nd of April
--printing 200 and 500 rouble notes-- same year ( 1000 rouble note a few months later)
Dollar went on a black market from 3 roubles pre-Gorby 1985 to 40 roubles in July 1991. ( 180 by December 1991 )
So you see it wasnt that bad.

[Schneider]

Pretorian,thank you for your insights !

Could you give us ( lot's if possible,lol ) more daily facts or events you got throught please !?? Solutions you used to survive it ?

Dmitry Orlov talk somewhat about it, but i feel a hell of a lot of us could use some advices from people like you to help to mitigate/prepare for the blow who is about to come soon enough !

Thank you again !

Schneider
French-Canadian

[SinisterBlueCat]

i am with Schneider, i would like more details please! what could or would you have done that might have eased the impact for you had you had enough time?

thanks for your imput!

[Schneider]

MORE..GIVE US MORE TO CHEW ON !! I'M STARVING !!!!!

Sorry,couldn't restrain myself ..

Schneider
French-Canadian

[Loki]

Pretorian, do you agree with Orlov's assessment that Americans will be in a worse position to handle economic collapse than Russians were?

I'd also be interested to hear more about the details of the Russian collapse. It's something we don't hear much about here in the US. Did wages rise along with the price of goods and services? How did the hyperinflation affect people who were in debt? I like Orlov's suggestion for a jubilee, but only because I don't think I'll ever be able to pay off my student loans otherwise.

Also, did street crime rise appreciably?

This BBC article from 1999 has an interesting story about a woman and her husband who were wiped out twice by hyperinflation. They stood in line at the bank literally watching their life savings evaporate.

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'H')yperinflation happened later, 1992-1993. 10000% inflation in 1993
...So you see it wasnt that bad.

[emersonbiggins]

Cue requisite Yakov Smirnoff joke in 3, 2, 1...

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'H')yperinflation happened later, 1992-1993. 10000% inflation in 1993
...So you see it wasnt that bad.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', 'P')retorian, do you agree with Orlov's assessment that Americans will be in a worse position to handle economic collapse than Russians were?

[Daculling]

Pretorian, thank you for your insight. Was there a weapon for every man, woman and child in the hands of the citizenry?

I think you know where I'm going here... our outcome might be very different, but I agree... worse.

[Kingcoal]

From what I understand, at it's peak, the former Soviet Union had an economy about the size of the economy of Finland. The trump card of the US for the last 20 years has been it's economy, it's willingness to export it's industries so it can import more from the world. The US is the customer of last resort and most of the rest of the producing world relies on that. Without the US, there would be massive worldwide unemployment.

I know, I know, it's just a "fake" economy and it's just "fake" money and so forth and so on. But the fact remains that most of the rest of the world had nothing to lose and some things to gain from the colapse of the Soviet Union. Most of the rest of the world has quite a bit to lose and really not much to gain from the colapse of the US.

[eric_b]

Pretorian, must thank you for your excellent post and information.

Reading it I felt a tinge of fear at the thought of being in America when TSHTF.

If the apple cart ever does get pushed over in the US it will be much uglier than the collapse of the USSR. I think most people would agree with this.

{edit} I've also wondered what will happen to the huge prison population, assuming an economic collapse and no longer being able to afford holding the prisoners.

[TommyJefferson]

Yes, thank you.