Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Saddam Hussein Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: The Timing of the Saddam Trial Verdict

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 06 Nov 2006, 12:34:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '.')..there's a strong shift back to the GOP, as noted in today's Washington Post. My guess now is that the Dems end up narrowly controlling the House but still don't win over the Senate. Not that it matters either way...

Actually, I wouldn't mind if the GOP maintained their majority in both houses for the next two years.

As we lead up to the 2008 election, everything is going to get worse. The economy is going to go south, Iraq can only deteriorate, it will be more and more obvious that we're approaching the energy crunch, the devastation we've wrought on the biosphere will be more apparent, the standing of the U.S. in the eyes of the rest of the world will worsen, the Chinese and Russians will be more dominant, etc., etc.

If the Republicans remain in total control of the U.S. government during those two years they'll be blamed for everything, and it will undoubtedly mean they'll be broomed out of control of Congress and the White House in 2008. It will take a long time to rehabilitate themselves. They'll suffer through several election cycles.

Of course, we'll then face the spectre of an all-Dem national government, but personally, I'll be so glad to see the GOP thoroughly humiliated, it won't matter to me what comes next.
"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
User avatar
Zardoz
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6323
Joined: Fri 02 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia

Re: The Timing of the Saddam Trial Verdict

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Mon 06 Nov 2006, 12:55:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'C')ough, cough. Diebold. Cough.


Like it freaking matters. So what? The upper level bosses are turning to dirty tricks to gain control of the crime syndicate. The Republicrats and Demopublicans can shoot eachother in the streets for all I care. Which set of greedy, brutal, self-serving megalomaniacs rules the country is not of concern to me.

The thing that just baffles me is that the rulers seem unaware that they are about to make a martyr out of Saddam. Either that or this is some sort of intentional move to amp up the insurgency as a justification to subdivide the country.

Province A: Oil Land - Complete with oil wells and a nice subservient US-puppet government
Province B: Camel Land - Complete with raw sewage, fetid water, and starving children.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
User avatar
smallpoxgirl
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7258
Joined: Mon 08 Nov 2004, 04:00:00

Re: The Timing of the Saddam Trial Verdict

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Mon 06 Nov 2006, 13:00:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'W')ell, the most harmless and useful permutation for the Republicans would be a 10-15 seat margin for the Democrats in the House, and a 51/49 margin for the Republicans in the Senate. In such a configuration, the Dems could really, really hurt themselves if they weren't very careful and very disciplined.


Interestingly enough, I was just looking at some projections at this place, and they are calling for a 50(D)/49(R) Senate, with 1 tie.

Now, the 239(D)/196(R) Congress seems a little generous, but it's still only a 55% majority. Not *quite* the 60% the Dems are looking for.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
Dreamtwister
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2529
Joined: Mon 06 Feb 2006, 04:00:00

Re: The Timing of the Saddam Trial Verdict

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Mon 06 Nov 2006, 13:18:16

I might be inclined to find faith in this decision, if the judges didn't require 24 hour bodyguards and the government itself wasn't penned up inside the "green zone", afraid of the very people it's supposed to be governing.

Since that is not the case, all I see is a dog and pony show for the proles.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
Dreamtwister
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2529
Joined: Mon 06 Feb 2006, 04:00:00

Re: The Timing of the Saddam Trial Verdict

Unread postby AgentR » Mon 06 Nov 2006, 13:33:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'N')ow, the 239(D)/196(R) Congress seems a little generous, but it's still only a 55% majority. Not *quite* the 60% the Dems are looking for.


I watch them pretty closely to at that site. As long as he has TX22 in the democrat pickup slot, I have to consider his numbers quite generous to the Dems. Last poll the chronicle ran that I saw, Lampson had a number in the high 30s. If he doesn't make 50%+1 on Nov7, he doesn't take office; and he can't beat Gibbs in a 1 on 1 with her name on the ballot.

TX22 goes like this:
Nov 7
Lampson 41%
Gibbs 18%(correct spelling)
Miscellaneous split between bad spellings and Lib.

No winner.

Dec xx
Lampson 43%
Gibbs 57%

Gibbs(R) goes to the house.

Thats my hunch.
Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
User avatar
AgentR
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Fri 06 Oct 2006, 03:00:00
Location: East Texas

Re: The Timing of the Saddam Trial Verdict

Unread postby Heineken » Mon 06 Nov 2006, 23:46:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '.')..there's a strong shift back to the GOP, as noted in today's Washington Post. My guess now is that the Dems end up narrowly controlling the House but still don't win over the Senate. Not that it matters either way...

Actually, I wouldn't mind if the GOP maintained their majority in both houses for the next two years.

As we lead up to the 2008 election, everything is going to get worse. The economy is going to go south, Iraq can only deteriorate, it will be more and more obvious that we're approaching the energy crunch, the devastation we've wrought on the biosphere will be more apparent, the standing of the U.S. in the eyes of the rest of the world will worsen, the Chinese and Russians will be more dominant, etc., etc.

If the Republicans remain in total control of the U.S. government during those two years they'll be blamed for everything, and it will undoubtedly mean they'll be broomed out of control of Congress and the White House in 2008. It will take a long time to rehabilitate themselves. They'll suffer through several election cycles.

Of course, we'll then face the spectre of an all-Dem national government, but personally, I'll be so glad to see the GOP thoroughly humiliated, it won't matter to me what comes next.


I have had nearly identical thoughts, Zardoz.

I used to be a strong Democrat but now vote that way, if I vote at all, out of habit.

My main interest tomorrow is doing my bit to wipe the smirk off Sen. Allen's face. He's a vile creature; and after all elections have become purely personality and advertising contests.

So it's all about the smirk. A smirk even worse than Bush's.
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---I & my bro.
User avatar
Heineken
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7051
Joined: Tue 14 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Rural Virginia
Top

Saddam to be hanged in mid January

Unread postby NTBKtrader » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 02:52:59

The former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein will be hanged by the end of January, a senior member of Nouri al-Maliki’s Dawa party predicted today as an around-the-clock curfew kept the lid on sectarian violence after the deposed dictator was sentenced to death.

"I don’t think it will drag on beyond January of next year," said MP Haider al-Abadi, who is a confidant to the Iraqi Prime Minister.

The 69-year-old strongman was sentenced to death yesterday for ordering a brutal crackdown that claimed the lives of 148 Shia from the village of Dujail, north of Baghdad, after a 1982 assassination attempt on his life.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... attr=World
User avatar
NTBKtrader
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue 19 Oct 2004, 03:00:00

Unread postby BrazilianPO » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 09:22:35

He deserves it, even though I am against hanging. Lock him for life, or if you really want him killed, just shoot him in the back of his head, but please, no hanging.

I also question the timing... 48h before the US elections? Hopefully this will not affect the elections and the democrats will get the majority in both houses.
<i>Omnia mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis</i>
User avatar
BrazilianPO
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed 19 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Australia

Unread postby TorrKing » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 09:57:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BrazilianPO', '.')..just shoot him in the back of his head, but please, no hanging.


I don't see any real difference. Both methods are humane. At least if you aim at snapping his neck rather than strangeling him.

The whoe execution business is rather unpleasant though.
User avatar
TorrKing
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 717
Joined: Thu 24 Nov 2005, 04:00:00
Location: The ever shrinking wilds of Norway
Top

Re: Saddam to be hanged in mid January

Unread postby whereagles » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 10:53:26

Military tradition says that deserters will be shot and traitors will be hanged (because they're not worth wasting a bullet on).

So, if Saddam is found guilty of treason, rope it is. Otherwise, the rifle.

On this issue, the president around here (Portugal), has made a surprising statement: he said that sparing Saddam's life would serve to show moral superiority of democracy.
User avatar
whereagles
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed 17 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Portugal

Re: Saddam to be hanged in mid January

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 11:50:57

I think it's a little late to be looking for moral superiority, don't you?
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
Dreamtwister
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2529
Joined: Mon 06 Feb 2006, 04:00:00

Re: Saddam to be hanged in mid January

Unread postby Carlhole » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 13:28:24

The Hanging of Saddam promises to be a truly wicked global internet download.

Will he dance on air? Will he pee his pants? Will a shoe fall off?

These are all things that people used to bet on at public hangings.

Go YouTube!
Carlhole
 

Re: Saddam to be hanged in mid January

Unread postby dhfenton » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 13:45:53

I just have to feel that adding one more death to this mess isn't going to solve anything. Saddam is a bad guy, so lock him away and let him rot in prison. Killing him will only inflame the passions of the Sunni faithful. We've been doing capital punishment for centuries, and it certainly doesn't deter anyone from committing these attrocities. The next dictator down the road will do the same things, in fact there are dictators out there right now doing stuff that is at par with Saddam. It seems like executions have little to do with the perpetrator of a crime, and more to do with some basic lust for revenge on the part of society as a whole. What can one say, it's just one more senseless act of barbarity in our allegedly "civilized" world. Think what some people will be capable of if society disintegrates after Peak Oil.
User avatar
dhfenton
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed 23 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Norwood, NY

Re: Saddam to be hanged in mid January

Unread postby mekrob » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 13:48:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')On this issue, the president around here (Portugal), has made a surprising statement: he said that sparing Saddam's life would serve to show moral superiority of democracy.


I think we ceded the moral high ground when we started torturing. Or maybe it was with the invasion. Or with the lying in the run-up to the war.
I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
mekrob
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: Fri 09 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Saddam to be hanged in mid January

Unread postby drew » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 20:06:37

Personally, I'd like to see ol' Saddam suffer a bit. I think people like him should experience a little of the horror they inflicted so willingly on others.

Why were/are Augusto Pinocet, or Pol Pot allowed to live into old age?

Why?

They certainly deserve/d what Saddam is getting.

Drew
User avatar
drew
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu 22 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Location: canada

Re: Saddam to be hanged in mid January

Unread postby PolestaR » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 22:18:54

A 148 lives eh.... that makes any US president in the last 50 years look like Ghengis Khan in comparison. Oh wait.. it's ok to kill civilians if you entered the country for terrorism reasons.. I forgot when it was ok. ++good.
Bringing sexy back..... to doom
PolestaR
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 955
Joined: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Saddam to be hanged in mid January

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 00:02:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'I') think we ceded the moral high ground when we started torturing. Or maybe it was with the invasion. Or with the lying in the run-up to the war.

Umm yeah...or when we dropped napalm on unarmed Vietnamese for the crime of farming in a free-fire zone. Or when the Phillipeanos jumped in mass off cliffs because it was prefferable to being captured and tortured by our army in the 1900's. Or when Lincoln and Kit Carson sent the Navajo on a death march to Bosque Redondo and they were forced to pick undigested food out of the horse turds to survive. Or when Jackson did the same thing to the Cherokee even after the Supreme Court ruled it illegal.

Now I will cede the point....we're not as bad as the Nazi's. It's not like we ever had much moral high ground though.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
User avatar
smallpoxgirl
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7258
Joined: Mon 08 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Saddam to be hanged in mid January

Unread postby elocs » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 17:11:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'I') think we ceded the moral high ground when we started torturing. Or maybe it was with the invasion. Or with the lying in the run-up to the war.

Umm yeah...or when we dropped napalm on unarmed Vietnamese for the crime of farming in a free-fire zone. Or when the Phillipeanos jumped in mass off cliffs because it was prefferable to being captured and tortured by our army in the 1900's. Or when Lincoln and Kit Carson sent the Navajo on a death march to Bosque Redondo and they were forced to pick undigested food out of the horse turds to survive. Or when Jackson did the same thing to the Cherokee even after the Supreme Court ruled it illegal.

Now I will cede the point....we're not as bad as the Nazi's. It's not like we ever had much moral high ground though.


That pretty much says it. There are other things, but I can't think of any better to add.
elocs
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat 04 Mar 2006, 04:00:00
Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
Top

Saddam Has to Die for the Sunnis to Comply

Unread postby evilgenius » Thu 28 Dec 2006, 05:47:29

The US will not get the Sunnis in Iraq to join with them in their plans to turn Iraqi oil production over to the Saudis unless Saddam is executed. As long as he remains alive the Iraqi Sunnis will remain loyal to Saddam and will not switch to back the Saudis or the Americans. Without Saddam it will occur self-evidently, even to the Sunni on the street, that their future lies with the Saudis and the Americans.

My guess is that all hell is going to break loose in terms of the Iraqi civil war in just over a month.

The thing I find most interesting is that the ultimate timetable in this whole mess remains the US election cycle. Bush has to ensure the fulfilment of his designs before 2008, with an adequate buffer for additional F***ups. That means it has to proceed quickly from now on. Look for a US troop buildup, but quickly!
User avatar
evilgenius
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3730
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Stopped at the Border.

PreviousNext

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron