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THE Patriot Act Thread (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 01:03:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'T')he guy is a fog horn. He also thinks that Peak Oil is propaganda.


Yes and he also thinks the world's power elite are all pre-historic alien lizard people who sacrifice children to the god Moloch.

He's wrong as often as he's right.
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby Carlhole » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 01:09:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'T')he guy is a fog horn. He also thinks that Peak Oil is propaganda.


Yes and he also thinks the world's power elite are all pre-historic alien lizard people who sacrifice children to the god Moloch.


Got a link?

...or are you just being facetious?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gampy', 'H')ope you can add to the discussion, have you seen things or made any connections that might lend credence to idea? If not...that's cool.


This is one of those things that everyone wonders about and so, naturally, people come out with different interpretations.

For example, I'm pretty sure that the US has had designs on establishing a permanent military presence in Iraq. But what was the real motivation for this?

Was it simply in accordance with all of previous US strategy such as the Carter Doctrine in which that president proclaimed that US acccess to ME oil supplies was regarded as a critical national security prerogative. And since there was no more Soviet Union preventing them from doing so, the US invaded?

Was it because Saddam had begun to make binding oil-field development contracts with the French, The Russians, The Germans, etc and US corporations found themselves shut out of the most lucrative petroleum reserves on the planet? Secondly, was Saddam's actions to denominate oil in Euros taken as an alarming threat to the status quo? In short, did premier Western capitalists and US corporate power co-opt the American government in a more or less fascistic invasion of another country for its resources?

Did Cheney's energy Task Force discuss Peak Oil at length and is this a primary driving force behind the US invasion of Iraq? If so, it seems to me that this would be the only scenario in which a future police state might eventually appear because in this scenario, it is not greed or business-as-usual that is driving events, but instead a recognition that soon an international scramble for energy resources was bound to occur anyway and the US interests might as well be first.

In this case, it seems very, very, unlikely that troops would ever be withdrawn from Iraq - no matter how bad the situation there deteriorates. And also, perhaps the foremost idea in Iraq was never to simply found a new government but, instead, to build permanent military bases from which to lord over Iraq's oil resources going into the worldwide energy-short future. So it will be interesting to see what happens after the election.

And lastly, is the invasion of Iraq a part of a larger effort by the US to become the first global empire in history? Alot of people seem to think so but I don't know. This is what Alex Jones keeps raving about.

And there always is the possibility of another 911-like event creating a whole new set of exigencies.
Last edited by Carlhole on Sat 28 Oct 2006, 01:35:21, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby gampy » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 01:16:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'T')he guy is a fog horn. He also thinks that Peak Oil is propaganda.


Yes and he also thinks the world's power elite are all pre-historic alien lizard people who sacrifice children to the god Moloch.


Got a link?

...or are you just being facetious?


Lol.

On topic please? Hahaha. Please?
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby AgentR » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 01:20:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'T')here is a landslide majority about to vote for significant change, as significant as the Republican sweep in 1994.


Propaganda.

2006 is no where near the scale of 1994.

1990 Congress: 267D to 167R
1992 Congress: 258D to 176R
1994 Congress: 204D to 230R
Thats a catastrophic 54 seat change, preceeded by two other smaller losses.

A fairly lefty source puts the scale of 2006 at
2004 Actual: 202D 232R
2006 Projected: 226D 207R

Basically a notable swap of 24 seats; several of which are simple lefty fantasy and supported only by hunch and no polling. Look for closer 10-15 seat pickup, and an even thinner majority.

Polls for senate are more accurate, and its currently looking like a 49/51 Republican controlled senate.

Thats just based on polls of course, but its the best we can do now.

PS: exit polls are no longer useful in anyway. Up to 30% of the voting population will have long since cast their ballots before the sun breaks on that Tuesday morning; and results from those ballots won't be available until polls close.
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby AgentR » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 01:23:59

Addendum to stay on target...

The fact that we can accurately discuss the federal elections down to this level of detail supports the idea that while the tools are in place to react quickly to small scale eruptions of disorder, in general America will maintain continuity of government by relying on the very old, pre-industrial tools we have used for a very long time. Vote on Tuesday, whatever happens, happens; and we'll sort it out later if we need to.
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby manu » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 10:20:51

The Prez recently, with a stroke of a pen, did away with posse comitatus and another law. I would rather take my chances with the mobs than with these gestapo mansanto lunitics. Genetically altered solent green soup anyone!
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby gampy » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 12:28:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('manu', 'T')he Prez recently, with a stroke of a pen, did away with posse comitatus and another law. I would rather take my chances with the mobs than with these gestapo mansanto lunitics. Genetically altered solent green soup anyone!


Link?


EDIT: Found it on another thread on this forum.

http://peakoil.com/post379021.html#379021

Interesting turn of events. Another brick in the wall, it seems.
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby gego » Tue 31 Oct 2006, 15:07:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gampy', '
')
Interesting turn of events. Another brick in the wall, it seems.


Those in power have as their primary interest remaining in power; all other motivations pale by comparison. Extracting wealth from the majority is much more important to those in power than providing something of value. Providing something of value or the illusion of something of value is done to gain support.

You should view legislation such as the Patriot Acts, the Military Commissions Act, and the Warner Defense Authorization Act from the point of view or those in power wanting to remain in power. This is scary because these laws give those in power a "legal" basis for doing the most horrendous things to the US population.

It is logical to conclude that they perceive the need for these laws since they conjured them up. If I were in power, knew of the probable social impact, post peak, then I might be looking for ways to repress the probable coming rebellion also.

Order is to preserve the interest of those who have established interest; it is not to preserve the interest of slaves intent on securing freedom.

I think gampy's fears and suspicions are well founded. Government by its very nature is force, so those of you on the left and right who have supported more and more government, for whatever purposes, will eventually reap what you have sown.
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby mmasters » Tue 31 Oct 2006, 17:59:24

I would go to say this is all about protecting the ruling class when the general public gets financially wiped out.

Depression prep.

I disagree with the "let it ride" notion that the decline of the resource base will dwindle down the economy (the long emergency theory). The problem being if we use up everything and go off the cliff the system will fail and ultimately dissolve the ruling class. I believe it's in the best interest of those at the helm of the ruling class to protect the system, maintain power and conserve what's left of the world's real wealth - the natural resource base. All of this can be nicely accomplished by a global depression. The problem is having billions accept it. Something great will have to be manufactured for people to swallow it, and surely many may not, hence all the dark legislation.

my 2 cents, FWIW
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby AgentR » Tue 31 Oct 2006, 18:15:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'A')ll of this can be nicely accomplished by a global depression. The problem is having billions accept it. Something great will have to be manufactured for people to swallow it, and surely many may not, hence all the dark legislation.


Another possible way to look at it is these pieces of legislation are as preperation for a siege state, and what better way to keep your mansions and private jets other than to have a couple hundred million armed and modestly vested Americans standing between you, and them.

Just ask yourself, would a typical American fight to hold on to his 2000sf house and SUV? N.O. folks struggled, fought, and died to hang on to much less than that.

If, in fighting and killing off ragged invading refugees, Joe's mansion is also protected, I doubt Joe will complain.
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby NEOPO » Tue 31 Oct 2006, 18:39:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'T')he guy is a fog horn. He also thinks that Peak Oil is propaganda.

Yes and he also thinks the world's power elite are all pre-historic alien lizard people who sacrifice children to the god Moloch. He's wrong as often as he's right.

Alex called 911 before it happened. Really though anyone who would have been paying as much attention as Alex could have come to the same conclusion. Most people are simply not aware.

The whole peak oil propaganda concept. I use to think that yet then again if they want to sell us gas at $10 are you going to call their bluff? <evil laughter> If "they" want PEAK OIL then they are going to get it and we are going to suffer.......

Thus it doesnt really matter as "they" must be planning to cause "peak oil" on one level or another regardless of the reality which I still believe is PO ;-)

Its a perfect opportunity for the "bankers" to consolidate. Now - imagine people who "get" peak oil and the other issues will see this as a natural occurence based on geo data regardless of the situation. Free propaganda pawns.

We are going to slow down but the gear shifting wont be gentle and "they" will not allow it to occur without thier hand being on the shifter. Good stuff kids ;-)
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Alex Jones - Nazi Connections to Bohemian Grove

I think Alex has it right pretty much. Not sure if they worship Moloch or Isis or whatever and not sure about the lizard people et al yet through my research I find it hard to easily rule it all out. Keep searching if you dare. I went off topic just for you Gampy ;-)
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby gampy » Wed 01 Nov 2006, 01:56:23

I had a look at Alex Jones' video, but I found it rather garish. I can't take him or his message seriously when he makes the video look like a bad rock video made by a kid with Windows(TM) Moviemaker.

I suppose he might have something intelligent to say, but he needs to tone down the theatrics and vaudevillian presentation of his message.

But thanks for the link, I guess.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming:

I think this might be another urban legend, but I have not been able to confirm one way or another if this is true or not.

From BELLACIAO.org:

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=9995


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ank Of America and Compass Bank managers (probably all other U.S. banks too) have been instructing their employees in the last few weeks on how to respond to customer demands in the event of a collapse of the U.S. economy - specifically telling the employees that only agents from the Department Of Homeland Security will have authority to decide what belongings customers may have from their safe deposit boxes - and that precious metals and other valuables will not be released to U.S. citizens. The bank employees have been strictly prohibited from revealing the banks’ new "guidelines" to anyone. (however, employees have been talking to friends and family)

The next time you visit your bank, ask them about it - then ask yourself, why is this information being kept secret from customers and the public - what’s really going on?


Probably untrue, but damn...it would make sense, especially if the government is expecting a massive run on the dollar. That business about the Federal Reserve not publishing their M3 information kind of ties into this.

Geez, I hope I am not going to turn into some paranoid, tinfoil hat wearing nutcase from delving into the murky business of global oil economics.
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby NEOPO » Wed 01 Nov 2006, 02:09:03

damn what? banks only hold 10-15% of all the money they have out so a run on the banks would end at that point.

pfft it goes well beyond global oil economics..............
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby Tinman » Wed 01 Nov 2006, 02:19:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', 'A') guy who would opt for the illusion of safety from tyranny instead of the freedom of self protection needs his head examined.

Reads like something one of the founding fathers said:
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." ~Benjamin Franklin
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby gampy » Wed 01 Nov 2006, 06:09:30

I hope this thread does not turn into an American bashing exercise, vis a vis "Fascist, capitalist, swine" kind of thing.

Not my intention, really, I was just looking for the patterns in the chaos to see if there was action going on in the US government to prepare for a serious and permanent "economic dislocation".

Has anyone seen things in other countries that show a similar pattern?

Canada, U.K., France, Russia, China?

Of course, there is little information from China, or Russia, in regards to changes in laws concerning the security of those states and their governments, but does recent events in Britain and France indicate anything going on in those countries?
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby Scactha » Wed 01 Nov 2006, 09:22:28

There is a tendency for this in the EU looking at the dwindling patience with the immigrant minorities cultural expressions that´s percieved as to alien. Here in Sweden we had the first political suggestion of demaninding a minimum knowledge in the swedish language to become a citizen. It created an uproar but the point is that in the country where nationalism is almost universally abhorred it happened. Times are changing.
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby NEOPO » Wed 01 Nov 2006, 10:36:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gampy', 'H')as anyone seen things in other countries that show a similar pattern? Canada, U.K., France, Russia, China?
Of course, there is little information from China, or Russia, in regards to changes in laws concerning the security of those states and their governments, but does recent events in Britain and France indicate anything going on in those countries?

Do you want to see all the patterns or just the ones you want to see today?
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby gampy » Wed 01 Nov 2006, 13:23:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Scactha', 'T')here is a tendency for this in the EU looking at the dwindling patience with the immigrant minorities cultural expressions that´s percieved as to alien. Here in Sweden we had the first political suggestion of demaninding a minimum knowledge in the swedish language to become a citizen. It created an uproar but the point is that in the country where nationalism is almost universally abhorred it happened. Times are changing.


Have the Swedeish government passed any new laws related to security, or privacy?

I have seen lots of background noise concerning Muslims and the hijab in France and England, as well as the controversy in the Netherlands.
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby gampy » Wed 01 Nov 2006, 13:25:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', '
')Do you want to see all the patterns or just the ones you want to see today?


I do not understand what you mean. Please elaborate.
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Re: War on terror, patriot act , homeland security and peak

Unread postby Scactha » Wed 01 Nov 2006, 17:24:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gampy', 'H')ave the Swedeish government passed any new laws related to security, or privacy?

There is talk about allowing the military to be allowed to intervene in case of a terrorist attack but I don´t know if that went through. (The police is supposed to do it.) That´s the only security issue I´ve noticed yet.
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