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THE US Political Parties Thread (merged)

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Re: Fox News protrays Foley as a Democrat

Unread postby Zardoz » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 15:01:31

From Foley-the-Democrat to the use of white phosphorus. It's amazing the tangents these threads go off on...
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Re: Fox News protrays Foley as a Democrat

Unread postby rwwff » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 15:05:01

Well it is in the Open section... not really as important as actual PO stuff. Between the lefty guys drawing things of Bush / Cheney pictures, to righty guys "accidently" type D- instead of R-... Its all very silly, but entertaining too.
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Re: Fox News protrays Foley as a Democrat

Unread postby TheDude » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 21:13:17

Two days in a row they've pulled this one. I think it was Thom Hartmann last night who recounted a story about Roger Ailes, when a youngster, was standing on a brick wall, and his father called to him to jump down - I'll catch you, don't worry. So Roger jumps - and falls hard onto the ground. Pop was teaching him an object lesson to never trust anyone, no matter who. Is that sick or what?
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Re: Fox News protrays Foley as a Democrat

Unread postby NEOPO » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 21:28:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'F')rom Foley-the-Democrat to the use of white phosphorus. It's amazing the tangents these threads go off on...
Why not - I mean how far did you think a "Foley the democrat" thread would go on unmolested ? ;-)
Bout as long as it helped distract me from the real issues....nada.
Plus isnt it all interrelated?
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Re: Fox News protrays Foley as a Democrat

Unread postby mekrob » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 22:02:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')espite what the show might claim, "white phosphorous" is not an illegal chemical weapon, it is a standard incendiary round. If yall want to make it illegal, you need to change the law. DU is also not illegal.

Someone needs to look at the law then and that includes you rwwf. The dreaded UN
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')rotocol III on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Incendiary Weapons prohibits, in all circumstances, making the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects, the object of attack by any weapon or munition which is primarily designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame, heat or a combination thereof, produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target.

The law can be interpreted differently, from what I read. One reading, and I've seen others agree, is that it cannot be used in civilian areas, even if there is a military presence. This is because the agent is not very accurate, so any use of the agent, in effect, targets the broader civilian population and not strictly the military personal.

On the other hand, it only prohibits "making the civilian population...the object of attack" by an incendiary weapon. One could argue, I presume, that it specifically says making the civilians the object or target of the attack. But then again, that's already illegal, so why make another law stating the obvious?
-------
Anyway, one has to ask oneself: If we have night-vision which gives us a major advantage over the 'blind' enemy, then why do we want to light up the sky? Doesn't it seem counterproductive? We can't see them any better than without WP, but now they know they are being targeted and better yet, they can see, potentially giving them the ability to escape. Seems a little fishy to me.
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Re: Fox News protrays Foley as a Democrat

Unread postby rwwff » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 22:12:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')rotocol III on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Incendiary Weapons prohibits, in all circumstances, making the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects, the object of attack

I bolded the important piece. In a legal setting, the lawyers would demonstrate that the civilians were not "the object of attack"; regardless of what we might think about it. Thats the legalism they would stress, and likely the court would grudgingly have to accept it.
Of course the real issue is the fact that there is no tribunal, and there will be no tribunal. Ever.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')oesn't it seem counterproductive?

If the general wants daylight, he gets daylight. The imaginary court would not place itself in the position of deciding what was the best tactical method. In fact, the general could argue that the phosphorous was used to provide illumination to assist US forces in their efforts to avoid civilian casualties. (as sick as that argument might sound).
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Re: Fox News protrays Foley as a Democrat

Unread postby mekrob » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 22:20:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')In a legal setting, the lawyers
That's not the question. I already made reference to the ability to work yourself around that situation. You said that it was not illegal. By most sane and decent human being's interpretation of that law, using WP upon civilian areas is illegal, no matter how Fox News and Bush would spin it. WP is illegal in civilian areas, don't you agree?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f the general wants daylight, he gets daylight. The imaginary court would not place itself in the position of deciding what was the best tactical method.
That's not what I meant, again. I'm not talking about what the courts or whoever would decide. I'm talking about the generals. Why would they want this? They aren't doing it for PR (to avoid casualties which is something Bush and Rove would conjure up). It is completely idiotic from any perspective I can possibly reason. Why give the enemy the light of day when you already have it?
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Re: Fox News protrays Foley as a Democrat

Unread postby rwwff » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 22:47:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'I')t is completely idiotic from any perspective I can possibly reason. Why give the enemy the light of day when you already have it?

I can think of one very human reason... payback
Certainly not legal, but seems the most likely.
Basically we are dancing around two parts of the issue.
1.) white phosphorous ammunition is not illegal in and of itself.
2.) intended target determines whether the white phosphorous is legal.

So we enter into an "intent" debate, and absent some unlikely admission on the part of the one giving the order, the commander in question is going to end up winning the intent debate, if only because he could very easily have set the stage earlier in a way that would require the weapons use; so in theatre, the rationale could go like, "my snipers enforcing the cordon of the city were not able to see the required distance accurately with their night vision gear" or some such nonsense.
And of course the most important point in the whole issue is the fact that there is no tribunal, and will be no tribunal.
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Re: Fox News protrays Foley as a Democrat

Unread postby seldom_seen » Fri 06 Oct 2006, 01:48:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'T')he sad part is Im not sure who this folley guy is? and the other sad thing is that fox and npr suck. Npr is a one world love in as the hoards stroll in. Falalalala as outside their little love in vapor lock chamber the overpopulation rages and consumes. But they say nothing. Bandaids promoters. Fox and NPR type democrat shit work well together. Both paradigms need each other and without each other they have no profits. Is there a power down media outlet? I cant watch anything but that. Im sticking to real life news. My daily life. I hope they all burn in hell. Who is this foley and what has he done? Is he a power downer?
Lou Dobbs is a decent human being and Ill watch him no problemo. He understands consequences at least. especially with immigration.
But its all too late anyway. These news channels are all doomed anyway as is America and other nations. Its in motion and its all down hill now. all it is mouths moving but I cant hear what they say.

Candid reporting from the Holmes News Service™
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Re: Fox News protrays Foley as a Democrat

Unread postby mekrob » Fri 06 Oct 2006, 17:04:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') can think of one very human reason... payback
Certainly not legal, but seems the most likely.

Exactly. Maiming women and children serves no true military purpose and, unless someone can refute this, WP would give no more light than night vision already gives. Besides, if you can't use night vision (too dark, etc), then infrared would work perfectly.
While they could always deny deny deny (assuming something like this would ever be questioned by our lovely media), we would know that it was completely illogical and also illegal in its use given the circumstances.
And we wonder why they cut off the heads of Americans?
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THE US Political Parties Thread (merged)

Unread postby Heineken » Thu 12 Oct 2006, 09:04:49

A good column from this level-headed guy, David Broder, with an interesting twist: Washington Post
The sad thing is that, although the GOP majority more than deserves to go, there is no good alternative to replace it.
So pull those levers for the Dems, but do so without illusions.

When a nation's spirit has been destroyed, its constitution trashed, and its treasury wiped out, it takes a lot more than a simple election to fix all the damage. Given the environmental, economic, and energy realities, it's questionable whether recovery will ever be possible.
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Re: Good David Broder column

Unread postby KrellEnergySource » Thu 12 Oct 2006, 11:28:34

As long as the elections are summed up as a choice between two parties, we have no hope for change. Elections are not about representation or good government. They are about shifts in power. Witness almost every vote in the House and Senate and how the vote goes down party lines, regardless of the merits of the issue.
Almost any high school student council does a better job of doing those things than the two parties have done in my lifetime.
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Democrats' New Intelligence Chairman Needs a Crash Course

Unread postby Loki » Thu 21 Dec 2006, 04:11:25

Democrats' New Intelligence Chairman Needs a Crash Course on al Qaeda
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')eyes stumbled when I asked him a simple question about al Qaeda at the end of a 40-minute interview in his office last week. Members of the Intelligence Committee, mind you, are paid $165,200 a year to know more than basic facts about our foes in the Middle East.
We warmed up with a long discussion about intelligence issues and Iraq. And then we veered into terrorism’s major players.
To me, it’s like asking about Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland: Who’s on what side?

The dialogue went like this:
Al Qaeda is what, I asked, Sunni or Shia?
“Al Qaeda, they have both,” Reyes said. “You’re talking about predominately?”
“Sure,” I said, not knowing what else to say.
“Predominantly — probably Shiite,” he ventured.
He couldn’t have been more wrong.
Al Qaeda is profoundly Sunni. If a Shiite showed up at an al Qaeda club house, they’d slice off his head and use it for a soccer ball.
That’s because the extremist Sunnis who make up a l Qaeda consider all Shiites to be heretics.

Al Qaeda’s Sunni roots account for its very existence. Osama bin Laden and his followers believe the Saudi Royal family besmirched the true faith through their corruption and alliance with the United States, particularly allowing U.S. troops on Saudi soil.
It’s been five years since these Muslim extremists flew hijacked airliners into the World Trade Center. Is it too much to ask that our intelligence overseers know who they are?
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Re: Democrats' New Intelligence Chairman Needs a Crash Cours

Unread postby TommyJefferson » Thu 21 Dec 2006, 10:56:40

Texas' 16th Congressional District is a loooong way from Langley, Virginia.

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Re: Democrats' New Intelligence Chairman Needs a Crash Cours

Unread postby coyote » Thu 21 Dec 2006, 14:10:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd Hezbollah? I asked him. What are they?
“Hezbollah. Uh, Hezbollah...”
He laughed again, shifting in his seat.

There's something fundamentally wrong about the way these committees are formed in congress. It so often seems to be the least qualified people running them... Pombo running the Resources committee, Inhofe running the Senate Environment committee, etc. These committees should have a damn entrance exam requirement.
How the living hell do you not know what Hezbollah is at this point? Unbelieveable.
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Re: Democrats' New Intelligence Chairman Needs a Crash Cours

Unread postby Zardoz » Thu 21 Dec 2006, 14:48:44

And we thought that maybe, just maybe, things might somehow be a little teensy bit different with the Republicans not in control of everything. This is really depressing.
May I ask just what these buffoons think they should be aware of? What exactly do they think they should be studying up on? What do you suppose they feel they should be experts on, particularly if they have the egotistic gall to claim they're qualified to be on the House Intelligence Committee?
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Re: Democrats' New Intelligence Chairman Needs a Crash Cours

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Thu 21 Dec 2006, 15:11:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'A')nd we thought that maybe, just maybe, things might somehow be a little teensy bit different with the Republicans not in control of everything.
I didn't.
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Re: Democrats' New Intelligence Chairman Needs a Crash Cours

Unread postby Fishman » Thu 21 Dec 2006, 15:21:08

Clueless, truely clueless. Generally when you throw one party out you should elect another group who have a clue, a plan, or at least another option. These guys clearly do not, damn in two years we might beg Bush to stay.
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Re: Democrats' New Intelligence Chairman Needs a Crash Cours

Unread postby coyote » Thu 21 Dec 2006, 16:07:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'W')hat do you suppose they feel they should be experts on, particularly if they have the egotistic gall to claim they're qualified to be on the House Intelligence Committee?

Let alone chairing it...
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How language effects public perceptions

Unread postby LaLaLand » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 17:28:52

I thought this was interesting. I've always wondered how Republicans get away with clear misuses of the English language.

Here is another article about Newt Gingrich's favorite negative words to use in sentences in conjunction with: liberal, democrat, and left wing.

At one time Newt passed out a manual to his fellow Republicans containing combinations of negative words and phrases designed to be dropped in certain media encounters. I could not find that...
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