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Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"

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Documentary: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors"

Unread postby Carlhole » Wed 04 Oct 2006, 21:40:03

Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Google Vid', ' ')'Oil, Smoke and Mirrors' is an independent 50 minute documentary on peak oil, 9/11 and the war on terror.


Yes, yes, yes.

Features Richard Heinberg, Colin Campbell, and others.

Another documentary, 'Improbable Collapse' is one of the best I've seen analyzing the events in NYC on September 11, 2001. It is an excellent exposition of the many questions that people have about the events in NY and it describes some of the major problems with the official story very well.
Last edited by Carlhole on Thu 12 Oct 2006, 21:01:53, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby ClubOfRomeII » Wed 04 Oct 2006, 23:06:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7946373613537938266&hl=en]Oil, Smoke and Mirrors[/url]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Google Vid', ' ')'Oil, Smoke and Mirrors' is an independent 50 minute documentary on peak oil, 9/11 and the war on terror.


Yes, yes, yes.


I thought Colin talking about how the peak date really isn't all that important was an absolute riot!!

I had to stop watching after they began claiming that no fighter jets ever scrambled prior to the 3rd plane hitting though, if they don't want to take their time to fact check their "documentary" it means you have to wonder what other facts they decided to ignore because it was inconvenient.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby Carlhole » Wed 04 Oct 2006, 23:56:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClubOfRomeII', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7946373613537938266&hl=en]Oil, Smoke and Mirrors[/url]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Google Vid', ' ')'Oil, Smoke and Mirrors' is an independent 50 minute documentary on peak oil, 9/11 and the war on terror.


Yes, yes, yes.


I thought Colin talking about how the peak date really isn't all that important was an absolute riot!!

I had to stop watching after they began claiming that no fighter jets ever scrambled prior to the 3rd plane hitting though, if they don't want to take their time to fact check their "documentary" it means you have to wonder what other facts they decided to ignore because it was inconvenient.


Whadja think of Richard Heinberg?
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby MonteQuest » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 00:17:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClubOfRomeII', 'I') had to stop watching after they began claiming that no fighter jets ever scrambled prior to the 3rd plane hitting though, if they don't want to take their time to fact check their "documentary" it means you have to wonder what other facts they decided to ignore because it was inconvenient.


Correct.

9:23am: “Okay … scramble Langley. Head them towards the Washington area.”
9:24am: NORAD is notified that Flight 77 has been hijacked.
9:30am: The first fighter jets are scrambled, but head east out to sea.
9:40am: Flight 77 crashes into the Pentagon.

Still a long time to wait to scramble. 43 minutes.

8:40am: NORAD is alerted of the hijacking of Flight 11.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby venky » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 02:35:41

Interesting, but I am still think that it is an extremely bad idea to link 9/11 with Peak Oil. Inspite of the immense strides that the 9/11 theories have made in penertrating American consciousness, these ideas are still extremely controversial; most people just have an instinctive reaction against conspiracies; and it hurts Peak Oil to be associated with it, just destroys our credibility by association.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby ClubOfRomeII » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 10:41:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')
Whadja think of Richard Heinberg?


I've never heard the guy talk before, he didn't seem completely out of whack, no tinfoil hat or anything, I checked his bio online to see what he was a professor of, and where, and wasn't overly impressed with his credentials. Him against an MIT statics and dynamics professor for how buildings collapse and he loses pretty badly I imagine.

I haven't read any of his books so I don't know specifically how his scenario for the end of the world works, or how accurate he is on technical details.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby ClubOfRomeII » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 10:46:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClubOfRomeII', 'I') had to stop watching after they began claiming that no fighter jets ever scrambled prior to the 3rd plane hitting though, if they don't want to take their time to fact check their "documentary" it means you have to wonder what other facts they decided to ignore because it was inconvenient.


Correct.

9:23am: “Okay … scramble Langley. Head them towards the Washington area.”
9:24am: NORAD is notified that Flight 77 has been hijacked.
9:30am: The first fighter jets are scrambled, but head east out to sea.
9:40am: Flight 77 crashes into the Pentagon.

Still a long time to wait to scramble. 43 minutes.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_ ... he_attacks

Wikpedia references jets leaving Mass. closer to 8:45. Still too late. But the video makes it sound like nothing even left the ground that morning, whereas apparently jets were up at 8:45 in New England, and NORAD was scrambling them at 9:30 or so near DC.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby gego » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 10:46:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('venky', 'I')nteresting, but I am still think that it is an extremely bad idea to link 9/11 with Peak Oil. Inspite of the immense strides that the 9/11 theories have made in penertrating American consciousness, these ideas are still extremely controversial; most people just have an instinctive reaction against conspiracies; and it hurts Peak Oil to be associated with it, just destroys our credibility by association.


This is a very good observation.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby zberry » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 11:24:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')nteresting, but I am still think that it is an extremely bad idea to link 9/11 with Peak Oil. Inspite of the immense strides that the 9/11 theories have made in penertrating American consciousness, these ideas are still extremely controversial; most people just have an instinctive reaction against conspiracies; and it hurts Peak Oil to be associated with it, just destroys our credibility by association.

Jeez, are peak oil people as bad as the anti-war crowd, who also push away the 9-11 Truth movement? Come on! Wake up! The connection is there whether it is a "bad idea" to link the two or not.
The government's story is literally unraveling before our eyes. It is virtually impossible to get anyone to "debate" the 9/11 Commission's findings because it is undefendable. Too many inaccuracies and inconsistencies.
It is not any single one thing. It is the totallity of evidence that simply cannot be explained away.
And regarding the scrambling of fighter jets, both NORAD and FAA lied to the 9/11 Commission. The Commission has admitted it. We had testimony of NORAD saying, "Oh, yeah, we were tracking the jet that crashed near Shanksville, we watched it make its turn and start heading back east." Now, with the magic "tapes" published in Vanity Fair, recently they are saying, "Oh, no. We weren't notified until after the final jet crashed."
We need a new independent 9/11 investigation that will follow ALL LEADS WHEREVER THEY GO. If we do, we will find out a lot of stuff about how our government really operates, including what it knows about peak oil.
9/11 and Peak Oil are connected. Peak Oil is going to result in economic hardship that will require a govt police state. With 9/11, we now have the infrastructure for the police state in place. Please wake up people.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby ClubOfRomeII » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 12:10:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zberry', '
')
The government's story is literally unraveling before our eyes.



Maybe I need some glasses. Last I looked, the conspiracy nuts have not yet produced the steel eating moon mice necessary to make their ideas hold together when under fire from the logic available to the average 10 year old.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby JustinFrankl » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 12:16:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClubOfRomeII', 'I') had to stop watching after they began claiming that no fighter jets ever scrambled prior to the 3rd plane hitting though, if they don't want to take their time to fact check their "documentary" it means you have to wonder what other facts they decided to ignore because it was inconvenient.

Most people don't have the time on their hands to separate the wheat from the chaff on matters of burning importance.

Do you stop reading a book when you find a grammatical or spelling error? Stop checking the weather forecast when it's off? Completely disregard your mate if they speak out of turn?

No, obviously not. You've responded to plenty of nonsense on this board alone, yet you still come back and participate.

It sounds more like, between the adamant refusal to watch something that disagrees with your worldview based on the single error, and the pervasive "steel-eating moon mice" comments, that you have a fundamental problem with any government involvement in 9/11, the Gulf of Tonkin / Vietnam, or Pearl Harbor.

Maybe it's the whole story that you have a problem with, maybe you've already followed the pieces to their conclusions but then said, "that's absurd".

Have you seen the physics evidence of thermite and thermate involved in the collapse?

Do you think it's appropriate that 40+ minutes passed between NORAD's alert and scrambling the fighters? That Bush sat in a schoolroom full of children and remained there after being notified the country was under attack?

Is it ok that NORAD stood down on 9/11 for the first time in its history?

Appropriate that the EPA okayed the air quality in New York following the attacks?

Prudent that the Commission gave up on tracking the funding for the attacks deciding it was of little relevance?

Simply lucky that the plane that hit the Pentagon chose the single side that had been reinforced for such an attack?

And several dozen other things that were wrong about the attack and our response to it.

Personally, I don't want to see any of your answers to these questions. I don't need a rebuttal. I don't have a case. All I have, and all what most people have, is a continual pattern of misrepresentations, half-truths, inaccuracies, and a few outright whopping lies.

All presented as a backdrop for The War on Terror, the "war that will not end in our lifetimes", the continual stealing of your freedoms.

When they come for the First Amendment, there will be no-one left to speak up.

No-one will show you the pattern if you can't see it for yourself.
Last edited by JustinFrankl on Thu 05 Oct 2006, 12:39:10, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby Hiderow » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 12:35:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClubOfRomeII', '
')Maybe I need some glasses. Last I looked, the conspiracy nuts have not yet produced the steel eating moon mice necessary to make their ideas hold together when under fire from the logic available to the average 10 year old.

OK, if a 10 year old could do it you shouldn't have too many problems.

Can you please explain to me how building 7 fell down ???

Does it not seem even the slightest bit odd to you that a building with a few fires was pulled? What's that all about?? Is it standard procedure to blow up buildings with a few fires rather than putting them out??

I suspect you will completely avoid answering me, please prove me wrong.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby Mesuge » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 12:38:30

Well, the Pentagon - NORAD story has changed dramatically at least 3x times since 9/11. Similarly, the non existent gov. response to the attacks has changed several times as more evidence is being leaked out.. The July Tenet presentation for Condie, Rummy and Ashcroft. The August 6, 2001 PDB about the iminent attacks etc..

He who still blindly defends the "official version" is by all accounts not credible, sorry guys..

They didn't pull the 9/11 scheme just to make some Larry PullerStein few extra bucks or NWO etc. that's secondary stuff. The main purpose was just to secure the elite's position behind the shrinking energy table for the comming decades..

In their eyes is a worker from Detroit the same shit as a Talib freedom fighter that's how it works..

And in case of problem there will be a draft and in case of bigger problems there will be some nukes flying, so chill out.

Yanks will get concentration camps from the Repucratic establishment and euros might strike it lucky and get some sort of deal with Russia, Asia and Latin America and at least attempt some sort of power down..
DOOMerotron: at all-time high [8.3] out of 10..
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby ClubOfRomeII » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 12:57:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JustinFrankl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClubOfRomeII', 'I') had to stop watching after they began claiming that no fighter jets ever scrambled prior to the 3rd plane hitting though, if they don't want to take their time to fact check their "documentary" it means you have to wonder what other facts they decided to ignore because it was inconvenient.

Most people don't have the time on their hands to separate the wheat from the chaff on matters of burning importance.



If scrambling jets is going to be used as PROOF of everything the rest of the video wants to claim, at the very least they should get some BASIC facts right.

If they can't do that, there is no credibility, and the rest of it can be expected to have been rsearched and fact checked as well.

We aren't talking about spelling and grammar, we are talking about revisionist history because it fits in better with a lunatic theory rather than talking about what obviously happened, jets were scrambled and went rooting around in a couple million square miles for an airplane which looks like every other airplace in the sky, and meantime the planes were already smashing into buildings, therefore, the jets couldn't find them, therefore, there were no jets launched, therefore it was all rigged by the goverment.

Making the leap is from one to the other is just silly, and when you have to make it sound better by LYING about it, so much for having any credibility. It took me 20 seconds on google to find out when planes were launched. An hour long documentary and it can't even take the time to understand its own central pinnings?
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby ClubOfRomeII » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 13:01:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hiderow', 'p')roblems.

Can you please explain to me how building 7 fell down ???



WTC7 was struck with enough debris from the collapsing towers that witnesses could see DAYLIGHT through the building, from about the 18th floor on down, so much of it had been gouged away. The fires in the building didn't just magically APPEAR, they were started by that structural damage ripping through the building, and fed by ruptured and pressurized diesel lines from the tanks in the basement.

Heat steel to 1000C or so and it looses what, 20-50% of its strength?

None of this is magic, and it doesn't require armed black helicopter gunships or the CIA...but the steel eating moon mice idea is cool.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby zberry » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 13:08:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')TC7 was struck with enough debris from the collapsing towers that witnesses could see DAYLIGHT through the building, from about the 18th floor on down, so much of it had been gouged away. The fires in the building didn't just magically APPEAR, they were started by that structural damage ripping through the building, and fed by ruptured and pressurized diesel lines from the tanks in the basement.

Then I am sure you can provide photos showing that. Because none of the photos of WTC7 that I have seen, and I have seen many, show daylight through the building.
Of course there was structural damage. If the structural damage caused the collapse, the collapse would have been assymetrical, that is, it would have fallen to the side where the damage is. It didn't. It fell straight down at free fall speed.
So please provide the photos of the daylight exposing damage to WTC7 or explain why the collapse was straight down, if the damage was only on one side of the building.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby ClubOfRomeII » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 13:28:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zberry', '
')Then I am sure you can provide photos showing that. Because none of the photos of WTC7 that I have seen, and I have seen many, show daylight through the building.


It ain't daylight, but are seriously suggesting that this much of the building missing isn't considered substantial and possibly fatal damage?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/ ... s_crop.jpg

I didn't say photographs of light were visible through the building, I said eyewitnessess could see light through the building.

But maybe they were paid by the CIA? Or had gray matter eating moon mice implanted in their brains to make such a thing up?
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby Hiderow » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 13:37:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClubOfRomeII', '
')WTC7 was struck with enough debris from the collapsing towers that witnesses could see DAYLIGHT through the building, from about the 18th floor on down, so much of it had been gouged away. The fires in the building didn't just magically APPEAR, they were started by that structural damage ripping through the building, and fed by ruptured and pressurized diesel lines from the tanks in the basement.

Seriously, you don't actually believe that do you? Why is there not even ONE picture showing this damage where witnesses could see DAYLIGHT from the 18th floor down :roll:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClubOfRomeII', '
')I had to stop watching after they began claiming that no fighter jets ever scrambled prior to the 3rd plane hitting though, if they don't want to take their time to fact check their "documentary" it means you have to wonder what other facts they decided to ignore because it was inconvenient.

What he said in the video is this "not once in that time did they scramble a warplane to intercept"
Now, what happened? 2 direct hits on the twin towers & 1 on the pentagon, doesn't seem to me like anybody intercepted anything.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby zberry » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 13:48:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t ain't daylight, but are seriously suggesting that this much of the building missing isn't considered substantial and possibly fatal damage?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/ ... s_crop.jpg

That picture, like most rebuttals to 9/11 Truth advocate's questions, is underwhelming. Yes, I could see damage to the facing of the building, but that's all. Sorry, but that falls well short of your claims of being able to see daylight through 18 floors. And the damage shown in that photo certainly is not enough to cause a collapse.
Your claim sounds simillar to the claim made by Popular Mechanics that 25-30% of building was missing. Just like you, they too, where unable to provide any photographic evidence whatsoever to back up the claim. Surface damage yes. A major chunk or gouge (10% or more of building)? Sorry, but no matter ho hard I look, I just don't see it. Maybe you should take another look at it yourself.
I would also like to hear an explanation of where the energy came from to hurtle steel beams and so forth up and away from the twin towers as the collapse/demolition process began. If you look, material is shot up and out, not straight down or even straight to the side, it is up and outward.
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Re: Independent Doc: "Oil, Smoke and Mirrors

Unread postby ClubOfRomeII » Thu 05 Oct 2006, 14:46:53

I also might add, I found this as a place which appears to have alot more facts on the issue than I would ever desire to know, but some people are just funny this way. Plus its only the real crazies who want to tie this in with peak oil anyway.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread225868/pg1

http://www.911myths.com/index.html

Go sign up and argue with them, I agree with the poster who said tying this in with Peak oil just makes us peak oil nuts look like...well...nuts.
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