[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClubOfRomeII', 'I') also might add, I found this as a place which appears to have alot more facts on the issue than I would ever desire to know, but some people are just funny this way. Plus its only the real crazies who want to tie this in with peak oil anyway.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread225868/pg1

http://www.911myths.com/index.html

Go sign up and argue with them, I agree with the poster who said tying this in with Peak oil just makes us peak oil nuts look like...well...nuts.

[venky]

Look Carlhole, our primary aim is in spreading Peak Oil awareness, getting people to understand the situation with oil depletion, trying to mobilize society to act to mitigate this issue; that is the focus here. Firstly anything else like 9/11 is just a distraction, that diverts efforts from the main issue. I haven't studied the issue like some people here but I know enough to know that there is a lot of disinformation out there. And secondly most people have an instinctive reaction against conspiracy theories; its like their minds slam shut and they are will no longer listen to you.

There is solid evidence to suggest that oil production will peak within a decade. On the other hand 9/11 theories, atleast in my opinion are fuzzy and speculative; even more so that they are somehow linked with Peak Oil; and more importantly disturbing to many people in the extent that they will instinctively assume that everything else you say is nonsense, without looking at the facts of Peak Oil.

Another point 9/11 is an US issue......while Peak Oil require the co-ordination of countries around the world.....another reason why the two should not be linked.

The first half of that documentary was pretty good; the second half had me squirming in my seat; as I knew I could not show it to any of my friends or contacts.

[ClubOfRomeII]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')
Nuts like Richard Heinberg, author of "The Party's Over: Oil and The Fate of Industrial Societies", "Powerdown", and "The Oil Depletion Protocol".

Nuts like Barrie Zwicker producer/host of the peak oil film "The End Of Suburbia".

[Carlhole]

There are three fuzzy and speculative subjects that are worth talking about. Those are: 911, Peak Oil and The War in Iraq.

I'm of a mind to investigate things properly before propounding some belief. I think 911 ought to be investigated properly. I think a serious effort to account for the world's oil reserves ought to be conducted. And I think there ought to be great coordination among nations as regards energy. I'm not in favor of a unipolar world where one nation seeks to control the entire world's resources and I think these kinds of ideas should be dispersed so that people are aware and discuss them and so that these ideas possibly affect future policy.

So fuck your ideas. I've got my own.

[Mesuge]

Carlhole> ClubofRome is a renown clown and stirrer on this forum we don't have to over react to his lunacies although I share your rage..

I have very little respect for individuals like ClubofRome, basically he presents himself here as a social outcast, not unlike the same sort of sociopath types as Cheney and Rumsfeld..

Especially, if we take into account the thousands of NY first responders who already died from the toxic dust (declared by EPA on higher orders as ok) on the site and thousands which will follow in the next few years and are living dead with gutted organs.. These guys are all for new 9/11 investigation as is the 9/11 Family Steering Commtt.

In terms of the idea that the reinvestigate 9/11 campaign is harming the Peak Oil agenda that's humours. For one thing, these two tribes are from the start mutually interdependent schools of thought as shown above and also the one aspect makes no sense without the other..

[AirlinePilot]

It's entertaining to see how when someone presents a bit of logic to refute the 9/11 CT supporters they are summarily attacked and labeled as neo-con facilitators. Keep at it Club, your not the only one in here with an IQ who can think for themselves.

Venky has an extremely valid point. Whether you believe in LIHOP/MIHOP or whatever HOP, If you link these two together routinely, you routinely lose credibility with whoever your audience is. It's the nature of the beast, plain and simple. I agree 100% with Venky. If you want folks to see what PO is, and maybe think through solutions, your not going to do it by alienating them with (what they think) are nut ball thoeries.

I still don't profess to know one way or the other how it went down that day, but I can guarantee you all one thing, I doubt any one in here really knows the story either. If you think you do, then you need to take a look in the mirror and think really hard about arrogance and your ability to have an open mind.

There are some smart folks in here. It might be nice to couple their brains with some courtesy and humility on occasion.

[Fergus]

Seems like if you post anything here that someone disagrees with, your a neocon dog. I was labeled that myself for my stance on the American Military and its current activities. Even today, I have no idea what a neocon dog is.

So soon we will all be neocon dogs.

[AlCzervik]

Carlhole, I didn't mean to steal your thunder by posting this in Open Discussion. I checked the media forum and didn't see it there, so I pulled the trigger in Open Discussion.

The most interesting aspect of this video is Heinberg going into 9/11 Truth more than ever before and 9/11 Truther extraordinaire Nafeez Ahmed delving into peak oil. It's funny that they put Webster Tarpley in this movie because he thinks peak oil is a scam.

The first 20 minutes on peak oil are an A+, especially for a newbie.

As a 9/11 Truth movie, I give it a C+, but it does introduce some of the issues to those who haven't heard them. Anyway, at this point, I am all about the LIHOP material like Sibel Edmonds and the material which Nafeez Ahmed focuses on, like Pakistani ISI links to the crime.

Here are more 9/11 Truth movies for others to watch.

LIHOP.
9/11 Press For Truth.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4255077250
Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8400743688

LIHOP/Psychological drama.
Who Killed John O'Neill?
http://www.wkjo.com/

For the demolition fans.
9/11 Mysteries.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1483512003
What's The Truth - Why Indeed Did The Twin Towers Collapse? (I am not convinced of demolition, but some parts of this movie minutes 45-60) are very interesting.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3701191665
http://www.911podcasts.com/display.php?vid=95
9/11 Revisited.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9657809939
Steven Jones lecture at UVSC.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2002408586
9/11 Eyewitness.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8587461603

Others.
Loose Change Second Edition.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8192753501
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3848835726
Painful Deceptions.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2031629480

[AlCzervik]

Edit. Dupe.

See current events at 911blogger.
http://www.911blogger.com/

[NEOPO]

Aww....... as if the world will accept PO and do the right thing no problem but toss 9/11 on it and yer asking to be called crazy.....

and Awww some resident NEOCONS have been outted recently and I for one am proud to have done my part....AWWW poor fellers.

Let us all recall that Club of rome came here basically denying much of the PO argument.
I bet a similar pattern exists for those of you unable to accept LIHOP or MIHOP theory.
Rest well with your GIT theory.

Hell neocon is a compliment compared to what I think about some people here

Now wheres that link so I can watch it again!!!

[zberry]

Just for the record, I would definitely categorize 'Who Killed John O'Neil?" as MIHOP, not LIHOP.
I agree that the most interesting aspect of the documentary was the intersecting of people like Heinberg and Nafeez. To me, given Aghanistan and Iraq's prominence in the world energy picture, and given that those two wars (and maybe a third with Iran) are only possible because of 9/11, it makes sense to at least possible connections. I have actually become very interested in 9/11 in just the past three or four months, whereas I have followed Peak Oil since at least 2002.
I now see 9/11 as an event that really crystalizes the path we are going on as a society (fascist path). To get inside 9/11, including Kroll Associates, AIG, Venice Flight School, OKC, etc., is really to come face-to-face with something so monstrous it is almost hard to describe. That's why Who Killed John O'Neil is so great. It shows just how many people stood to benefit from the events of that day, and that the real terrorists who are out to harm us do not wear towels on their heads or live in caves in Afghanistan, but rather wear three-piece suits and work on Wall St., and in the upper echelons of government and military.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgoSOQ2xrbI&mode=related&search=]Controlled Demolition Expert and WTC7[/url]

Danny Jowenko, a European Controlled demolition expert with 27 years experience is positvely certain that WTC7 collapsed as the result of a controlled demolition. He says it is quite obvious to him.

Controlled Demolition Expert on WTC1 and WTC2

This same controlled demolition expert claims that WTC1 and 2 collapsed as the result of the plane crashes and the fires.

Naturally, any thinking person wants to get to the bottom of the events of 911 because they have been used to enact sweeping legislation that affects every American's civil liberties AND the attacks have been a constant drumbeat for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq - wars that, on the face of it, would seem to have much do to with oil geopolitics, wars that the US is apparently losing. Indeed, the events of 911 have been used to incite the 'Clash of Civilizations" conflict that the US leadership claims 'will not end in our lifetimes'.

So its important to answer all the questions that the public has about the events of 911. The 911 Truth Movement is interested in getting to the heart of the matter(s). So it is not so much a movement based on 'belief' as it is on 'disbelief'.

The 911 Commission did not investigate the attacks properly at all, did not address WTC7 in its report, did not address widely reported phenomena such as the molten pools of metal and extreme temperatures in the rubble piles, did not provide a scientifically rigorous account of the 'Total Progressive Collapse' (pancake theory) sequence, did not address quite alot of other details about the attacks.

The government WILL NOT release crucial evidence (for example, the Pentagon wreckage) that would answer many of these questions. Even the 911 families regard it as a shameful whitewash and they have documented their grievances in the film '911:Press For Truth". So, those Americans who would like to have the extensive number of their unanswered questions properly addressed are pushing for a renewed investigation. Thus, the movement has publicized ALL the unresolved issues regarding 911 that people have raised in films such as 'Loose Change'.

Non-curious, non-thinking, non-intellectual people think that is crazy.

[ClubOfRomeII]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')Danny Jowenko, a European Controlled demolition expert with 27 years experience is positvely certain that WTC7 collapsed as the result of a controlled demolition. He says it is quite obvious to him.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClubOfRomeII', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')Danny Jowenko, a European Controlled demolition expert with 27 years experience is positvely certain that WTC7 collapsed as the result of a controlled demolition. He says it is quite obvious to him.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'N')one of the formal investigating agencies (FEMA, NIST, The 911 Commission) was able to explain the collapse of WTC7.

[venky]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'N')one of the formal investigating agencies (FEMA, NIST, The 911 Commission) was able to explain the collapse of WTC7.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('venky', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'N')one of the formal investigating agencies (FEMA, NIST, The 911 Commission) was able to explain the collapse of WTC7.

[NEOPO]

I want to prove a point please.

Rwwff - i am calling you out punk

The following video was posted and has been posted and probably will be posted again and again as one of the best on the subject:

loose change second edition

Have you watched it?
If so, I will wait for your response, I have some questions that you could not answer unless you indeed watched the film.

Care to take my test?
Just to prove that you have watched it because right now - I cant imagine any rational person with the ability to grasp PO not being able to see how this piece fits so please help me better understand by convincing me that you have seen it and that you still feel the same about 9/11.

Better yet debunk each part with links!!! yeah

Now Club of rome - there were so many witness's to the secondary explosions that it isnt funny and if you watched "loose change" then you know of at least one guy who got fired for his official position and another "expert" who changed his story completely from one interview to the next.

Pointing at one group who attempted to debunk some part of any aspect of this conspiracy tells me little.
Its like saying PO isnt reality because the price fell to $60.

I am so glad that Heinberg and others near the PO issue see it for what it is and I do not think it hurts PO at all.
Like global warming - the facts only compound the seriousness of our situation and so do the facts of 9/11.

The sugar coat isnt working ya freakin genius's................

[venky]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('venky', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'N')one of the formal investigating agencies (FEMA, NIST, The 911 Commission) was able to explain the collapse of WTC7.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'H')ave you watched it?