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"Crossing the Rubicon" by Mike Ruppert (merged)

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Unread postby fastbike » Thu 18 Nov 2004, 18:05:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PhilBiker', 'S')pend a few hours googling about Ruppert and read some text by his detractors before joining his legion of disciples. I would suggest this for any author, but particularly for Ruppert.


And come up with what. A gripe on WingTV !

As a kid I was taught to play the ball not the man. Yet any criticism I see of Ruppert seems to centre on his rudeness. So what ! It might not be the smartest way of tackling your critics but maybe he's just frustrated by people who think that Peak Oil is an (oil company) conspiracy and that oil is created abiotically. Tell us about it.

Most of the critics then deconstruct Ruppert's words and accuse him of being a stooge of the oil companies (a la Peak Oil) or the Rockefellers (a la world population and consumption pressures).

As to the notion that if half of what he alleges is true he'd be goneski - that's too obvious. Kill the fellow and he becomes a martyr. Instead discredit him, then he is shunned and neutralised that way. This explains the "Discredit Ruppert" campaign in full swing - especially that his book is in print. It's relatively easy to take down / bury a web site but what do you do when you've got 35,000 books in circulation. You have to work against the author.

And yes, Ruppert got well and truly sucked-in by the whole Vreeland saga. But even if you remove those chapters, there are still many questions in the book that have never been asked of (nor answered by) those in power.

The fact remains - peak oil is a happening thing. Something many of his critics flatly refuse to debate.
Let's hope the next generation have a sense of humour ... our generation will need it.
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Unread postby Pherdz » Thu 18 Nov 2004, 22:25:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PhilBiker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')pend a few hours googling about Ruppert and read some text by his detractors before joining his legion of disciples. I would suggest this for any author, but particularly for Ruppert.


I did. And whatever I researched did nothing to discourage my thinking about Ruppert and his investigation on Peakoil and this gov't. If anything, the research only solidified Ruppert's credibility because there's really nothing that surfaced through google to substantially discredit Ruppert.
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Unread postby backstop » Thu 18 Nov 2004, 22:52:20

Maybe the greatest compliment to Ruppert's professional credibility as an investigator is that his detractors (who may yet be called "Coincidence Theorists") are reduced to attempting mere character assassination, rather than systematically rebutting the evidence he presents ?

regards,

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Unread postby Grimnir » Fri 19 Nov 2004, 15:34:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('fastbike', '
')As to the notion that if half of what he alleges is true he'd be goneski - that's too obvious. Kill the fellow and he becomes a martyr. Instead discredit him, then he is shunned and neutralised that way.


Oh come on now. This is the Bush Administration! The Bush Administration that callously murdered thousands of its own citizens in order to seize political power, slandered and destroyed everyone within their ranks who expressed dissent, and they react to the guy who exposes the whole gig by...subtly applying pressure on his publisher to print fewer copies? It just doesn't make sense.
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Unread postby PhilBiker » Mon 22 Nov 2004, 09:49:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')h come on now. This is the Bush Administration! The Bush Administration that callously murdered thousands of its own citizens in order to seize political power, slandered and destroyed everyone within their ranks who expressed dissent, and they react to the guy who exposes the whole gig by...subtly applying pressure on his publisher to print fewer copies? It just doesn't make sense.
You'd be surprised at what kind of twisted logic makes "sense" to conspiracy buffs. If you can imagine it, it could have happened.
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Unread postby PhilBiker » Mon 22 Nov 2004, 09:55:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')aybe the greatest compliment to Ruppert's professional credibility as an investigator is that his detractors (who may yet be called "Coincidence Theorists") are reduced to attempting mere character assassination, rather than systematically rebutting the evidence he presents ?
I wouldn't call the widespread attack on Ruppert's Vreeland connection "character assasination". Ruppert's reliance on that connection demonstrates that his much ballyhooed research may not be all that it's cracked up to be. I don't know if he's publically come out and announced "I was wrong about that". Reading his articles displays a very interesting personality, he certainly seems to be full of himself, I'd say megalomaniacal. Whether you do or not, most people do rely on someone's character for credibility.
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Unread postby fastbike » Tue 23 Nov 2004, 17:40:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PhilBiker', 'S')pend a few hours googling about Ruppert and read some text by his detractors before joining his legion of disciples. I would suggest this for any author, but particularly for Ruppert.


I just dug out another interesting article relating to Victor Thorn's piece titled "Mike Ruppert Unmasked."

Here's Ruppert's answers dated 7 Oct:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/10questions.shtml

Victor Thorn's been rather quiet on Ruppert since then. Looks like Thorn's out on a limb and refusing to answer the questions that Ruppert has asked him.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o now, let me ask you a couple of questions, publicly and for the record.

What is your real name? Is it Scott? Have you ever been arrested? Have you ever received any money from any agency of the United States government for any services rendered?
Let's hope the next generation have a sense of humour ... our generation will need it.
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Unread postby PhilBiker » Wed 24 Nov 2004, 10:10:10

That's Ruppert's MO. He'll continue asking irrelevant paranoid questions like that forever. I mean, read those!! Is that coming from a stable mind? Is that someone you want to trust?
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Unread postby stu » Wed 24 Nov 2004, 11:44:23

I 've just finished reading Cross the Rubicon and my initial thoughts are that it is an amazingly researched book and would totally change, if not, make you strongly question how you view the world.

Essentially what Ruppert does is show that 9/11 was planned and allowed to happen in order for the "war on terror" to commence. The War on terror is actually going to be a series of resource wars that will see the world fight over the last remaining supplies of oil. In his conclusion at the end he seems to say that this occurred because of the dissapointing results that were coming from drilling in the Caspian Sea- an area that had been called "the next Middle East". Realising that oil shortages were coming they then set up the 9/11 tragedy using the CIA, the DofD and other government agencies.

There is a lot more that I could explain but it is just too much. What people who have not read this book need to realise is that it is 600 pages long, contains over 900 sources of information (including well known newspapers and news agencys) and took Ruppert two years to compile. These facts alone would convince me of Rupperts research abilities and his credentials.

I notice that people also say that the main reason for not believing him is because he is still alive or that he is just a wacky conspiracy theorist. Firstly he admits that the question he is most frequently asked is "why is he still alive?" His main answer is that he believes that it would not be cost effective for the CIA to kill him as he is not important. Though it does beg the question that if he has just blown the whole secret plan wide open why is he not deemed a priority for assassination.

Secondly I would not describe him as a wacky conspiracy theorist for the following reasons. When he is answering unanswered questions on 9/11 he uses information that was released by news agencies such as AP and Reuters but which were never really followed up by the mass media. Also a look at his credentials dispells the conspiracy theorist tag. His newsletter From The Wilderness is sent to 16,000 subscribers. Amongst these people are 35 members of the Senate, members of intelligence commitees and professors of universities. From what I know conspiracy theorists don't attract these kind of audiences.

Of course the only way to know is to read the book for yourself and I would thoroughly recommend it.
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Unread postby Peachy » Wed 24 Nov 2004, 12:14:38

He's probably still alive[b] because[\b] he is widly discounted as a conspiracy theorist. If he were to be killed under unusual circumstances there is a certain danger that more people would take him seriously.

I've just finished the first section of the book and his argument that there is a connection between severel distinct situations in world politics is very compelling. For example Ruppurt points out that the so called drug war has really served to consolidate the worlds drug production in countries which are firmily under the control of the US. Columbia now produces nearly all of the cocain in circulation and Afghanistan the heroin. On the surface it just doesn't make since, our tax dollars are supposed to be fighting a war against drugs so why is it that over the past 20 years drug production has become so centralised and increased so much. Ruppert explains, and the argument rings true. He does this again and again with various US interventions around the world and ties them together in what appears to be a coherent general plan for world domination and control of resources.

I challenge you to read the book and provide evidence to the contrary.
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Unread postby fastbike » Wed 24 Nov 2004, 15:30:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PhilBiker', 'T')hat's Ruppert's MO. He'll continue asking irrelevant paranoid questions like that forever. I mean, read those!! Is that coming from a stable mind? Is that someone you want to trust?


I'm not defending Ruppert. He may well be paranoid or abrasive, but name calling doesn't advance understanding of documented facts.

Do you have a more plausible theory for the global mess that the US has created in the last few years ? Have you bothered to research your assumptions and document them. If so I would be interested in reading them. I'm not interested in put downs, name calling and general ranting.

BTW, what did you think of Rubicon (rather than Ruppert) after reading it ?
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Unread postby Bytesmiths » Wed 24 Nov 2004, 17:07:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('stu', '.').. he admits that the question he is most frequently asked is "why is he still alive?" His main answer is that he believes that it would not be cost effective for the CIA to kill him as he is not important. Though it does beg the question that if he has just blown the whole secret plan wide open why is he not deemed a priority for assassination.
I think the farther out something is -- regardless of its truth -- the less likely it will be to attract serious attention.

If it's "incredible" that the president of the US invaded a sovereign nation based on lies he told the US public, then he gets re-elected.

Likewise, what Rupert, Michael Moore, et. al. allege is simply too much for the public to handle, so they are "allowed" to continue their message.

Why is Rupert still alive? The same reason why this website hasn't been shut down. It's simply below the public's believability threshold, and those who are capable of assassinating people and shutting down websites know it's more trouble than it's worth.
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Unread postby fastbike » Wed 24 Nov 2004, 17:46:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PhilBiker', 'W')hether you do or not, most people do rely on someone's character for credibility.


Just like we do for good old king George, or his faithful lackeys Tony and John (Howard) !. :lol:
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Unread postby stu » Thu 25 Nov 2004, 08:52:03

[QUOTE]

Why is Rupert still alive? The same reason why this website hasn't been shut down. It's simply below the public's believability threshold, and those who are capable of assassinating people and shutting down websites know it's more trouble than it's worth

Good point. Awareness of peak oil in general is very low, obviously due to lack of mass media interest. Rupperts life would only be threatened if more people took notice.

I've also noticed that the current rating of his book is 28 in the non-fiction section on Amazon.

I'm having some success in persuading friends to get the book by listing the facts of the research and the credentials of Ruppert.

How does everyone else respond to you when you talk about the book? :)
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Unread postby Riddick » Thu 25 Nov 2004, 20:54:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PhilBiker', 'T')hat's Ruppert's MO. He'll continue asking irrelevant paranoid questions like that forever. I mean, read those!! Is that coming from a stable mind? Is that someone you want to trust?


Nah, I'd rather trust the people running the government. :roll:
"Your failure to be informed does not make me a wacko." - John Loeffler

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Unread postby EZODIAK » Sat 27 Nov 2004, 02:53:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PhilBiker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')aybe the greatest compliment to Ruppert's professional credibility as an investigator is that his detractors (who may yet be called "Coincidence Theorists") are reduced to attempting mere character assassination, rather than systematically rebutting the evidence he presents ?
I wouldn't call the widespread attack on Ruppert's Vreeland connection "character assasination". Ruppert's reliance on that connection demonstrates that his much ballyhooed research may not be all that it's cracked up to be. I don't know if he's publically come out and announced "I was wrong about that". Reading his articles displays a very interesting personality, he certainly seems to be full of himself, I'd say megalomaniacal. Whether you do or not, most people do rely on someone's character for credibility.


he's come out repeatedly on how 'unreliable' a source vreeland can be, and his horrible experiences with him...but maintains the evidence vreeland provided overides his erratic behavior due to the fact it was proven to be provided pre 911 and includes insights which have proven correct since.
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Unread postby PhilBiker » Mon 29 Nov 2004, 10:55:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ah, I'd rather trust the people running the government.
As if that's the only other choice..... [smilie=BangHead.gif] Of course there's no chance that Ruppert is stilla live because we have freedom of speech in this country... That couldn't be the case.
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Unread postby PhilBiker » Mon 29 Nov 2004, 10:57:09

God help us when LaRouche gets on the Peak Oil bandwagon.
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Unread postby Riddick » Mon 29 Nov 2004, 13:40:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PhilBiker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ah, I'd rather trust the people running the government.
As if that's the only other choice..... [smilie=BangHead.gif] Of course there's no chance that Ruppert is stilla live because we have freedom of speech in this country... That couldn't be the case.


Well look how wacky his ideas are (in a mainstream sense). Most people in this country are asleep: PO is a perfect example. The govt. wouldn't have to do anything to a vocal person such as Ruppert if the majority of the American people think he's a nut. Also, think about what kind of impact a "mysterious death" would have.
"Your failure to be informed does not make me a wacko." - John Loeffler

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"Crossing the Rubicon" Michael Ruppert [2]

Unread postby stu » Wed 01 Dec 2004, 09:54:21

A book which will definitely appeal to the conspiracy theorist inside you.

Ruppert alleges that the war on terror is actually a cover for a series of resource wars that will happen due to the inevitable decline in oil supplies. His main focus is on how 9/11 was allowed to happen and he comes to the conclusion that Dick Cheney was in charge of a wargames operation that was happening on the very same day as the attacks on the twin towers. This is part of the reason why it took so long for the USAF to respond to the hijackings.

When I first read the blurb on the back of this book I have to admit that I thought that it was just another book amongst a series of others about 9/11.

When I finished a lot of things did seem to make a bit more sense. Ruppert describes how he investigates the theory of Mike Vreeland a spy for the Naval Intelligence Service who, in August 2001, describes a massive attack that will happen on the 11th September. From there he goes on to follow other leads which back up his theory that 9/11 was a set up.

When you finally get to the end of the 600 pages and browse some of the 900 sources of information you are left to wonder whether what you have actually read is true or not.

Personally I think that the more evidence you can add to a theory then the more believable it is until you can't deny the truth any more. This book will start many discussions and arguments and will be equally lauded as it will be criticized.
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