War Signals?
Dave Lindorff
As reports circulate of a sharp debate within the White House over possible US military action against Iran and its nuclear enrichment facilities, The Nation has learned that the Bush Administration and the Pentagon have moved up the deployment of a major "strike group" of ships, including the nuclear aircraft carrier Eisenhower as well as a cruiser, destroyer, frigate, submarine escort and supply ship, to head for the Persian Gulf, just off Iran's western coast. This information follows a report in the current issue of Time magazine, both online and in print, that a group of ships capable of mining harbors has received orders to be ready to sail for the Persian Gulf by October 1.
As Time writes in its cover story, "What Would War Look Like?," evidence of the forward deployment of minesweepers and word that the chief of naval operations had asked for a reworking of old plans for mining Iranian harbors "suggest that a much discussed--but until now largely theoretical--prospect has become real: that the U.S. may be preparing for war with Iran."
According to Lieut. Mike Kafka, a spokesman at the headquarters of the Second Fleet, based in Norfolk, Virginia, the Eisenhower Strike Group, bristling with Tomahawk cruise missiles, has received orders to depart the United States in a little over a week. Other official sources in the public affairs office of the Navy Department at the Pentagon confirm that this powerful armada is scheduled to arrive off the coast of Iran on or around October 21 ...
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061009/lindorff
PeakOil is You
War fleet leaves for Persia
War fleet leaves for Persia
by Colorado-Valley » Fri 22 Sep 2006, 23:13:21
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Re: War fleet leaves for Persia
by IanC » Fri 22 Sep 2006, 23:32:19
Just envision the Village People on the deck of the Eisenhauer singing "In the Navy" in full regalia. Tight uniforms, tight haircuts, tight buns. It makes this almost funny.
Tired of living in fear
-Ian
Tired of living in fear
-Ian
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Re: War fleet leaves for Persia
by Colorado-Valley » Sat 23 Sep 2006, 03:10:52
Yeah, I'm sure a war with Iran would just be hilarious.
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Re: War fleet leaves for Persia
by gego » Sat 23 Sep 2006, 03:41:51
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IanC', 'J')ust envision the Village People on the deck of the Eisenhauer singing "In the Navy" in full regalia. Tight uniforms, tight haircuts, tight buns. It makes this almost funny.
Tired of living in fear
-Ian
Tired of living in fear
-Ian
That is a funny thought. Maybe Bush could be out front in a "Music Man" drum major outfit, high stepping and pumping his baton.
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Re: War fleet leaves for Persia
by Fergus » Sat 23 Sep 2006, 09:44:31
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IanC', 'J')ust envision the Village People on the deck of the Eisenhauer singing "In the Navy" in full regalia. Tight uniforms, tight haircuts, tight buns. It makes this almost funny. Tired of living in fear
That is a funny thought. Maybe Bush could be out front in a "Music Man" drum major outfit, high stepping and pumping his baton.E-gads. Theres not a lot funny abou this in reality. All I know is if we enter into a war iwth Iran, We (the Americans) had better win at any cost.
Heres a copy/paste from Snopes.com by a retired Major General with his personal opinions on the war currently, I think it bears on this situation. We can not afford to lose any war anymore. thius pretty much covers my point of view a lot better then I could have said it. Yep. I am infavor of America securing her future with oil rights today by any means neccessary. I am in favor of the current war on terror. Regardless the cost, we can not afford to lose this war.
This WAR is for REAL! Written by: Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired Tues, July 12, 2005:
To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to it's existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).
The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means. First, let's examine a few basics:
1. When did the threat to us start?
Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer, as far as the United State is concerned, is 1979, 22 years prior to Sep 2001, with the following attacks on us:
* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.
(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).
2. Why were we attacked?
Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.
3. Who were the attackers?
In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.
4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%
5. Isn't the Muslim religion peaceful?
Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests).
(see http://www.nazis. testimony. co.uk/7-a.htm)
Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others. Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the same way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?
6. So who are we at war with?
There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.
So with that background, now to the two major questions:
1. Can we lose this war?
and
2. What does losing really mean?
If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions. We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean?
It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.
What losing really means is: We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were neutered and submissive to them.
We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent and cannot help them.
They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.
The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!
If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else?
The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.
Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.
So, how can we lose the war? Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, or really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!
Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation.
President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war, people! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.
And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then.
Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?
No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.
Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.
Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.
And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the street. And still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held.
Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.
Can this be for real? The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.
To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media
people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.
Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United State, but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense. We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world! We can't! If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.
And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world. This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire . If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read.
If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach, little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve.
Doesn't that sound eerily familiar? Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece. And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power.
They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct about the "peaceful Muslims"?
I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.
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Fergus - Coal
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Re: War fleet leaves for Persia
by Fergus » Sat 23 Sep 2006, 11:20:27
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'I') stopped reading the General's article about 1 paragraph in.
Fergus wrote: "Yep. I am infavor of America securing her future with oil rights today by any means neccessary."
Oil Rights? What Oil Rights do we have.
Say it like it is, man. If you are going to be a goon, at least acknowlede that you are a goon, and not a man "defending his rights".
What you mean to say is that you are in favor of killing people so that America can have cheaper oil.
If you are going to be the kind of person who wants to kill foreign men women and children to keep prices down in the U.S., then why quibble with Euphemisms about why you are doing it?
You think we have "rights" to Iranian oil?
How very strange.
That's the same as Moe thinking he has "rights" to Calvins lunch money.
Fergus wrote: "Yep. I am infavor of America securing her future with oil rights today by any means neccessary."
Oil Rights? What Oil Rights do we have.
Say it like it is, man. If you are going to be a goon, at least acknowlede that you are a goon, and not a man "defending his rights".
What you mean to say is that you are in favor of killing people so that America can have cheaper oil.
If you are going to be the kind of person who wants to kill foreign men women and children to keep prices down in the U.S., then why quibble with Euphemisms about why you are doing it?
You think we have "rights" to Iranian oil?
How very strange.
That's the same as Moe thinking he has "rights" to Calvins lunch money.
Pretty much, isnt that what I said. I make no bones about my stances. I would rather kill the pple that would rather kill me and take their oil. There. Can I be any more clearer.
You are the next target after we pull out of Iraq and let Iran build her nuclear arsenal. If you are fine with waiting for death to come to you, more power to you. I on the other hand would rather go ahead and pull the gloves off and let the world know, AMerica is the strongest country of them all. PERIOD. Therefore America is ENTITLED to the IRanian oil since its us who are losing our young men protecting the Cindy Sheehans of the world.
You might wanna go back and re read the whole article. Its quite insiteful and he speaks the truth.
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