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Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.
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Re: We can believe

Postby rogerhb » Fri 08 Sep 2006, 17:32:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'I')t is not hard to believe, it is practically impossible to believe.


A third of the world believe they are Christian.
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Re: We can believe

Postby clueless » Fri 08 Sep 2006, 18:21:27

I'm sure many more than that believe Industrial Civ is sustainable and forever also , doesn't mean they are right, or are believing something that is true.

50% of "Christians" don't beleive Jesus was God, which is essential to the orthodox Christian faith, how do you reconcile that ?
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Re: We can believe

Postby rogerhb » Fri 08 Sep 2006, 18:23:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'I')'m sure many more than that believe Industrial Civ is sustainable and forever also , doesn't mean they are right, or are believing something that is true.


This what I was trying to get at. They also believe that inflation is normal and that paper is money.
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Re: We can believe

Postby clueless » Fri 08 Sep 2006, 18:26:29

Sounds like we live in an age of delusional thinking, huh ?
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Re: We can believe

Postby rogerhb » Fri 08 Sep 2006, 18:27:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', '5')0% of "Christians" don't beleive Jesus was God, which is essential to the orthodox Christian faith, how do you reconcile that ?


You could follow Jesus's teachings on morality and ignore the organised religions that came about after his death.

In my mind, you would have the right to call yourself Christian without believing in the bookends of the virgin birth and resurrection. In fact, that would ironically make you standard Church of England.
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Re: We can believe

Postby clueless » Fri 08 Sep 2006, 18:42:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')hat would ironically make you standard Church of England.


That's why I attend a small indepent local Church. Organized religious institutions, and "Mega Churches" and Movements are largely corrupt and ran by men seeking to make a name for themselves. Don't see a lot of those folks storing up treasure in Heaven, but I see a lot of earthly pleasure and comfort.
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Re: We can believe

Postby rogerhb » Fri 08 Sep 2006, 18:45:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'T')hat's why I attend a small indepent local Church.


We can say you certainly stand by what you believe! :)

Best wishes.
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Re: We can believe

Postby EndDays » Sun 10 Sep 2006, 13:34:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')hat would ironically make you standard Church of England.


That's why I attend a small indepent local Church. Organized religious institutions, and "Mega Churches" and Movements are largely corrupt and ran by men seeking to make a name for themselves. Don't see a lot of those folks storing up treasure in Heaven, but I see a lot of earthly pleasure and comfort.


Amen.

I too batte with "self", but it is God who deserves all the glory.

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Re: We can believe

Postby Heineken » Sun 10 Sep 2006, 16:57:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', 'I')it is God who deserves all the glory.



I've always hated this philosophy of people doing the work and "God" getting the credit. That belief has helped feed the subjugation and abuse of people across the centuries. I.E., it's OK to work people to the bone and even bash in their brains, since only God really counts.
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Re: We can believe

Postby rwwff » Sun 10 Sep 2006, 17:03:46

In what world would predatory humans choose to believe otherwise. Our faiths restrain our nature, but do not change them. By believing, we become more like what we wish we were, but yet, are not.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'W')hy have we chosen the course of the Borg, when we could have lived like the Hobbits?


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Re: We can believe

Postby Zardoz » Mon 11 Sep 2006, 20:37:36

The vast majority of the human race believes that they will never cease to exist.

It's what gets them through the day.
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Re: We can believe

Postby rwwff » Mon 11 Sep 2006, 20:47:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'T')he vast majority of the human race believes that they will never cease to exist.
It's what gets them through the day.


I find that concept so completely foreign... Yet observable behavior leads me to believe you've hit the nail on the head. No sense of the world after they are nothing but bits of bone, dust, (and for the religious) a soul in some heaven, purgatory, or hell.

It would explain the rash of people perfectly content to build nothing for their children; perfectly content to leave the Earth in a state where even reasonable survival could prove difficult.
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Re: We can believe

Postby Zardoz » Mon 11 Sep 2006, 21:48:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '.')..(and for the religious) a soul in some heaven, purgatory, or hell...

Actually, that's what I'm referring to. As Roger said, we cannot believe that which we are not prepared to believe. Most of us are not prepared to believe that our existence will end, so we believe otherwise. We believe we will exist forever.
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Re: We can believe

Postby WildRose » Mon 11 Sep 2006, 23:00:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'T')he vast majority of the human race believes that they will never cease to exist.
It's what gets them through the day.


I find that concept so completely foreign... Yet observable behavior leads me to believe you've hit the nail on the head. No sense of the world after they are nothing but bits of bone, dust, (and for the religious) a soul in some heaven, purgatory, or hell.

It would explain the rash of people perfectly content to build nothing for their children; perfectly content to leave the Earth in a state where even reasonable survival could prove difficult.


A large segment of the North American population doesn't consider the state of the Earth or what they're leaving their children because they just can't fathom hard times. They've grown up with dinners out, the latest in fashion, high tech toys and recreation. How many give a lot of thought to the consequences of their lifestyle on the environment? Many have not had to do without and so don't know the value of preserving anything for the future, unless they've studied these issues or been educated by a wise grandparent. They have a kind of tunnel vision, and at the end of the tunnel there is just more of what they're accustomed to.
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Re: We can believe

Postby WildRose » Mon 11 Sep 2006, 23:15:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'T')he vast majority of the human race believes that they will never cease to exist.
It's what gets them through the day.


I find that concept so completely foreign... Yet observable behavior leads me to believe you've hit the nail on the head. No sense of the world after they are nothing but bits of bone, dust, (and for the religious) a soul in some heaven, purgatory, or hell.

It would explain the rash of people perfectly content to build nothing for their children; perfectly content to leave the Earth in a state where even reasonable survival could prove difficult.


A large segment of the North American population doesn't consider the state of the Earth or what they're leaving their children because they just can't fathom hard times. They've grown up with dinners out, the latest in fashion, high tech toys and recreation. How many give a lot of thought to the consequences of their lifestyle on the environment? Many have not had to do without and so don't know the value of preserving anything for the future, unless they've studied these issues or been educated by a wise grandparent. They have a kind of tunnel vision, and at the end of the tunnel there is just more of what they're accustomed to.
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Re: We can believe

Postby rwwff » Mon 11 Sep 2006, 23:16:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '.')..(and for the religious) a soul in some heaven, purgatory, or hell...

Actually, that's what I'm referring to. As Roger said, we cannot believe that which we are not prepared to believe. Most of us are not prepared to believe that our existence will end, so we believe otherwise. We believe we will exist forever.


Ahh, ok, then this is even more interesting for me as a puzzle of belief. I have almost no difficulty at all believing in the existence of an active, creator God. I have little difficulty believing that a person of the Godhead took human form in an effort to teach us how to live. On the other hand, I have a heck of a time believing in any sort of consciousness after death; though I accept on faith that such is so as a religious principle and pray for greater enlightenment on the matter as I grow older. I trust Jesus and those he annointed, and their successors to assist me on that journey.

In any event, a belief in an afterlife has never been an obstacle to any prior generation in doing what they could to improve the lives of their children and grandchildren.
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Re: We can believe

Postby nwildmand » Tue 12 Sep 2006, 01:52:35

roger its nice hearing you really hammer down on a subject. your much less annoying than when you just put up a one liner.

to bad i have to ruin your thread, but its time to piss people off.

stupid people believe in religion, it a proven fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosit ... telligence

it perfectly explains stuff like suicide bombers and jonestown.


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Re: We can believe

Postby clueless » Tue 12 Sep 2006, 20:43:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nwildmand', 'r')oger its nice hearing you really hammer down on a subject. your much less annoying than when you just put up a one liner.

to bad i have to ruin your thread, but its time to piss people off.

stupid people believe in religion, it a proven fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosit ... telligence

it perfectly explains stuff like suicide bombers and jonestown.


skreee skreee


One of the truly tragic things about the internet - A person can find anything to support his thesis. And Hey ! If someone wrote it on a webpage, then it must be true - right ?

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Re: We can believe

Postby Heineken » Tue 12 Sep 2006, 21:36:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '.')..(and for the religious) a soul in some heaven, purgatory, or hell...

Actually, that's what I'm referring to. As Roger said, we cannot believe that which we are not prepared to believe. Most of us are not prepared to believe that our existence will end, so we believe otherwise. We believe we will exist forever.


Ahh, ok, then this is even more interesting for me as a puzzle of belief. I have almost no difficulty at all believing in the existence of an active, creator God. I have little difficulty believing that a person of the Godhead took human form in an effort to teach us how to live. On the other hand, I have a heck of a time believing in any sort of consciousness after death; though I accept on faith that such is so as a religious principle and pray for greater enlightenment on the matter as I grow older. I trust Jesus and those he annointed, and their successors to assist me on that journey.

In any event, a belief in an afterlife has never been an obstacle to any prior generation in doing what they could to improve the lives of their children and grandchildren.


A very reasonable post, rwwff.

There's a crazy kind of religiosity, and then there's the sort you espouse. If only the former kind weren't the type that's taking over.
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Re: We can believe

Postby WildRose » Tue 12 Sep 2006, 22:36:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '.')..(and for the religious) a soul in some heaven, purgatory, or hell...

Actually, that's what I'm referring to. As Roger said, we cannot believe that which we are not prepared to believe. Most of us are not prepared to believe that our existence will end, so we believe otherwise. We believe we will exist forever.


Ahh, ok, then this is even more interesting for me as a puzzle of belief. I have almost no difficulty at all believing in the existence of an active, creator God. I have little difficulty believing that a person of the Godhead took human form in an effort to teach us how to live. On the other hand, I have a heck of a time believing in any sort of consciousness after death; though I accept on faith that such is so as a religious principle and pray for greater enlightenment on the matter as I grow older. I trust Jesus and those he annointed, and their successors to assist me on that journey.

In any event, a belief in an afterlife has never been an obstacle to any prior generation in doing what they could to improve the lives of their children and grandchildren.


A very reasonable post, rwwff.

There's a crazy kind of religiosity, and then there's the sort you espouse. If only the former kind weren't the type that's taking over.



Amen to that, Heineken!
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