[PenultimateManStanding]

One should not be too identified with one's thinking. Thoughts shift, and most of them come from outside, anyway. A detachtment from one's thoughts allows a more critical assessment of them. There is an element of paradox in this: can we think about thinking, can we think at all without being in our thoughts? But how else can we rise above our limited thought repertoire? So on to the debate part of this, and yes, it is our gold medal debater miki that prompted this: one of my favorite posters is threadbear. She has a thought stream which I find deplorable in it's political side as she does mine, but she's still fine in my book. We both know that ideas are not more important than people, that the opposite is in fact the truth. Miki shows signs of this too, but I feel they are faint signs. Partisan identification is a dangerous thing, one can lose one's way going too far down that road. It comes from being too identified with thinking. Back up, I would say, step outside of the usual thought streams and believe nothing for a while. It can't hurt.

[greenworm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')houghts shift, and most of them come from outside, anyway.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('greenworm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')houghts shift, and most of them come from outside, anyway.

[Pops]

Don’t know notin about thought streams, motorcycle maintenance and whatall but playing Debate Devil to one's own thoughts and beliefs is a sure way to realize how fragile their underpinnings.

[greenworm]

There is a world wide web, look it up yourself if you are inquisitive.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('greenworm', 'T')here is a world wide web, look it up yourself if you are inquisitive.

[Miki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('greenworm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')houghts shift, and most of them come from outside, anyway.

[greenworm]

there you go



I'd go with Husserl's definition as taken from his book "ideas". Heidegger is more of an existentialist who is using phenomenological thought as a starting point, the two schools of thought actually work nicely together so it does seem like a natural progression. Basically, you observe (interact as well) the surrounding phenomena and from this interaction of the two comes subjective thoughts, understandings, reality for lack of better descriptors. All in all, this is mental masterbation, a minor in philosophy has led me to this conclusion. Zen is right up there as the silliest philosophies I have ever encountered, to me it is attempting to delve into reality intensely in an attempt to figure out the moment. Waste of time imho.

[greenworm]

Double post, I suck.

Miki actually explained it very well, kudos.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')You might argue that one can assess the objective facts available, and phenomenology would tell you that your assessment of those facts would be coloured by your own biases. Mind you though, that phenomenologists do not consider this a bad thing. On the contrary, it is argued that the best way to study a complex phenomenon is to inmerse yourself in it and experience it.

So perhaps you should travel to Israel and check for yourself what's going on? Or ask an American that has been there?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('greenworm', ' ')All in all, this is mental masterbation, a minor in philosophy has led me to this conclusion. Zen is right up there as the silliest philosophies I have ever encountered, to me it is attempting to delve into reality intensely in an attempt to figure out the moment. Waste of time imho.

[Miki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'S')o perhaps you should travel to Israel and check for yourself what's going on? Or ask an American that has been there?

[greenworm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat's where it all started, figuring out how to craft obsidian spear points to bring down Mammoths and prey.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')Can anyone explain to me why you guys don't travel given that most of you manifest a desire of doing so?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('greenworm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat's where it all started, figuring out how to craft obsidian spear points to bring down Mammoths and prey.

[NEOPO]

uhm what?

So yer saying that we are unable to objectively discuss peak oil etc etc because we are unable to take our own private positions and previous life experiences out of the equation?

I do not know if this exactly applies yet I find that most people are unable to overcome their own deficiencies long enough to believe that someone else has indeed overcome them and is therefore thinking on a higher level.

For instance - altruism - most believe it is impossible to reach such a state of mind yet it appears that that is exactly why most can never believe nor ever attain this level of thought.
They believe it is impossible and thus for them at least.... it is.

[smiley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n my case, there is a twofold explanation. For one, I earn considerably less money than the average American and I can't afford it.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', ' ')or because they are afraid of our food?

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'I')'ve always wondered why Americans don't travel abroad more often. You guys make more money than Lebanese, yet you travel less!

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'C')an anyone explain to me why you guys don't travel given that most of you manifest a desire of doing so?