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Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

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Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Eli » Mon 21 Aug 2006, 22:09:10

CSpan Video

This is a very good video interview of Robert Spencer about Islam.

He goes to the text directly and explains how the Koran commands that Muslims practice Jihad.

I really do think that there is a "fog of political correctness" that blinds people to the truth about Islam.

Why people try and pretend that Islam is a religion of peace when the founder himself participated in over 70 battles in an effort to spread his faith is beyond me.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Miki » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 05:47:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'I') really do think that there is a "fog of political correctness" that blinds people to the truth about Islam.


Huh? How many times have you seen Muslims portrayed positively in your media dude? Please!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hy people try and pretend that Islam is a religion of peace when the founder himself participated in over 70 battles in an effort to spread his faith is beyond me.


Just like Bush and the neocons and the people that voted for him argue that they're Christians when the US has fought 100 wars in the last 100 years only--outnumbers the wars fought by Muslims by far, huh? Not much difference between the wars of Mohammad and the wars of the US: both were about expanding their dominion.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Miki » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 06:03:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', '[')url=http://www.q-and-a.org/Program/?ProgramID=1086]CSpan Video[/url]

This is a very good video interview of Robert Spencer about Islam.

He goes to the text directly and explains how the Koran commands that Muslims practice Jihad.


Mr Spencer is the director of Jihad Watch (see below). Whoever checks his website knows what his agenda is. Also, please check the comments after the articles, you won't find a single comment against Spencer's claims. Their editing policy states that they have the right to delete any "annoying" comments. I wonder how much they pay him to spread propaganda.

Oh and for the record, one of Jihad Watch's main mottos is that the West does not know about the "threat of Jihad". It seems Mr Spencer does not watch American TV.

Jihad Watch
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Eli » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 09:38:25

The video is very good, it shows a montage of politicians mostly from the right who proclaim Islam is a religion of peace.

Westerners and others that choose to be ignorant of the history Islam and the content of the Koran, like to believe that Islamic extremists are some how following an invalid form of Islam.

The inherent problem is that the Koran unlike the New and Old testament has an open ended call for followers to oppress and attack non-believers. Verse after verse in the Koran compels the believers to wage war and to kill nonbelievers or force them to convert or to pay a religious tax as second class citizens.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'K')oran 9:29
Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the jiziya (poll tax) with the hand of humility.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'K')oran 9:5
"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'K')oran 5:33-34
The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, merciful.


Westerners and those who are willfully ignorant love to make arguments of equivalences between the faiths of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. In spite of the fact that there are no corresponding open ended calls to violence in the Old Testament let alone the New.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Miki » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 10:19:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'W')esterners and others that choose to be ignorant of the history Islam and the content of the Koran, like to believe that Islamic extremists are some how following an invalid form of Islam.


Islamic extremists are a MINORITY. Their interpretation of Islam is considered to be WRONG by MOST MUSLIMS.

Can you please get informed before asserting things so irresponsibly?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he inherent problem is that the Koran unlike the New and Old testament has an open ended call for followers to oppress and attack non-believers. Verse after verse in the Koran compels the believers to wage war and to kill nonbelievers or force them to convert or to pay a religious tax as second class citizens.


So many verses in the Bible say otherwise. Here are just a few:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hey devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it-men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys (Jos.6:21) [...] as God had ordered them!, so the false gods will not be adored among them, because the gentile women will induce the Israelites to adore false gods (Deut.7:2-5, 20:16-18, Num.25:1-5, 31:14-17, Ex.23:33)


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]The Book of Joshua mentions 31 kings defeated in bloody battles (Jos.12:24) [...] and after every battle, the city and everyone in it he put to the sword, as ordered by the Lord (8:22, 10:28,29,32,36,38, 11;11,12,17,20)


The "War of Extermination" in the OT:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Moses gave the Israelites specific instructions on how they were to wage Yahweh's wars:

1- The priest initiated any war by reminding the Israelites that Yahweh fights for them. This clearly shows the war's sacred character (Deut.20:2-4)------that is, this is God's war. He fights through His people.

2- Cities outside the land of Palestine do not need to be entirely destroyed, but attacks on cities inside the land require destruction of all life (Deut.20:10-18).This practice is known as the "ban" or "herem" or "the law of anathema". To put a city under the ban was to devote its occupants to Yahweh for destruction. It is often translated "completely destroyed" or "devoted":
- In the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them--the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites--as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshipping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God. (Deut. 20:16-18).
- When the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally (according to the law of anathema). Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. (Deut.7:2-5, 2:34, Num.25:1-5, 31:14-17, Ex.23:33, Joshua 6:17, 8:26).

3- They are specifically to show no pity to inhabitants of the land (Deut.7:1-2). God believes they will not want to fully carry out His directions, so He warns the Israelites against pity!

When Israel is sent into the land of Palestine to destroy the Canaanite nations, the nation is like a child sent to get his own paddle. Israel is being graphically taught its need to obey Yahweh, who indeed is the God of the whole earth. And God takes His duties seriously! Israel is warned that failure to remove this cancer of wickedness would eventually bring her own infection with sin and hence, their own judgment (Deut.7:1-6, 20:18).

The parallels in language with the Koran's concept of Holy Wars are shocking.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')esterners and those who are willfully ignorant love to make arguments of equivalences between the faiths of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. In spite of the fact that there are no corresponding open ended calls to violence in the Old Testament let alone the New.

You know very little about Islam, so you can't judge that. Islam is heavily based on the Judeo-Christian tradition. The overlap between the Koran and the Bible would amaze you, but you obviously have not studied the Koran. Almost all Christian prophets are considered prophets in Islam, and Jesus (Issa) is one of the most important ones. Muslims believe He will come on the "last day" and defeat the devil.

PS: I did not put the smilies on purpose. I tried changing the format of the Bible verse numbers in order to get rid of them, but it didn't work! If anyone has any suggestions on how to get rid of them, please let me know. Thanks!.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Eli » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 11:08:04

People like to try and point out how similar and bloody the Old Testament is to the Koran, superficially this would seem to be the case.

When one examines the text and scriptures however the violence of the Old Testament is clearly confined to a particular time and place or people.

It is only within the text of the Koran and the Hadiths that one finds continued calls for believers to wage physical wars against unbelievers and all those who oppose Islam.

This is a distinction with a very important difference.

Islam like all other faiths has participants that take it more or less seriously. Just like in Christianity and Judaism, there are those who live it out to varying degrees in their daily lives. The unfortunate truth is that Militant Islamists do not follow a false or invalid form of Islam, they in fact follow a form of Islam that more accurately reflects the Islam practiced by the Prophet Mohamed.

The history and the texts found within Islamic literature bears witness to this fact.

Moderate Muslims face an increasingly difficult task, while they can argue that Muslims should emphasize the more peaceful aspects of the faith the moderates cannot say that the Militant aspects are invalid.

The continued American military and Israeli presence in the middle east only further radicalizes the Muslim population. This contributes to the fact why figures like Osama Bin Laden, who preach Jihad and warfare in the name of Allah, are praised and revered rather than shunned by ever growing portions of the Islamic world.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Miki » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 11:42:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'P')eople like to try and point out how similar and bloody the Old Testament is to the Koran, superficially this would seem to be the case.

When one examines the text and scriptures however the violence of the Old Testament is clearly confined to a particular time and place or people.


Really? When I read those quotes I clearly see God asking the Israelis to slaughter those who disagree with their beliefs. Why would God condone the slaughter of the unbelievers only at one point in time and only on the basis of them being unbelievers? Are you teling me that God changed His mind over time?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t is only within the text of the Koran and the Hadiths that one finds continued calls for believers to wage physical wars against unbelievers and all those who oppose Islam.

This is a distinction with a very important difference.


Not really. The calls were restricted to that place and time. If a minority of Muslims decide to apply it today, that doesn't render the Koran an inticement to ongoing war against the infidels. It is their interpretation of the Koran that is wrong.

And how about the ever increasing American Christian fanatics (Bush among them) who believe God is commanding them to fight wars in the ME and to restore Israel its promised land so that the prophecies can be fulfilled? They are using the Bible as a motivation, right?

Bottomline is that both the Bible/Christianity and the Koran/Islam can be used and have historically been used to justify the killing and or convertion of the infidels. If you accuse Muslims of that, you should admit that Christians and Jews have exactly the same problem. Otherwise, just accept that neither religion emphasizes this today, and that both Christianity and Islam advocate peace in our days, and that both religions have extremists/radicals, and that both religions allow the use of violence for self-defense

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he unfortunate truth is that Militant Islamists do not follow a false or invalid form of Islam, they in fact follow a form of Islam that more accurately reflects the Islam practiced by the Prophet Mohamed.


That is incorrect. Their interpretation of Islam is wrong. It is not your opinion or mine that counts in these matter. It is the opinion of Most Imams and most Muslims, and most Imams and most Muslims believe that the terrorists' interpretation of the Koran and Islam is wrong.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he history and the texts found within Islamic literature bears witness to this fact
.

And the history of the West doesn't?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')oderate Muslims face an increasingly difficult task, while they can argue that Muslims should emphasize the more peaceful aspects of the faith the moderates cannot say that the Militant aspects are invalid.

Yes, they can, and they've repeated it one million times. That is their official position. Check the CAIR website for a very long list of American and world Muslim organizations and scholars condeming terrorism and rejecting the view that these extremist attitudes are based on an accurate interpretation of Islam. Here:

[web]http://www.cair.com/html/911statements.html[/web]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he continued American military and Israeli presence in the middle east only further radicalizes the Muslim population. This contributes to the fact why figures like Osama Bin Laden, who preach Jihad and warfare in the name of Allah, are praised and revered rather than shunned by ever growing portions of the Islamic world.

The first part is true, but that doesn not mean most Muslims agree with terrorism or that they would engage in terrorism. It just means that American/Israeli state-sponsored terrorism is raising the hatred levels among Muslims---and with good reason. When hatred levels are raised, it is normal for people to feel a certain degree of satisfaction on seeing the ones that made them suffer suffering. It is human nature. But that doesn't mean that most Musims would become terrorists because of their hate.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Dreamtwister » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 12:34:55

n my neighborhood, there is a fairly non-insignificant number of muslims. Want to know what I've discovered?

They are just ordinary people.

Some have jobs, some don't. Some have kids, some don't. Some own thier homes, some rent. Some have manners, some don't. Some are devout, some can't even tell me where the nearest mosque is. Some hate, some don't.

They worry about the bills, hope the schools are safe and complain about high taxes.

I can no more hate a typical muslim because of the actions of a few fundamentalists than I could all jews because of the actions of a few zionists. Or all christians because of Pat Robertson.

And I will not engage in a crusade against a people who my government declares an enemy, just because they happen to live on top of oil.

Nor will I perpetually live in fear of some faceless enemy who hates me. To live in fear is to surrender your own will to those who would exploit you.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby oil4u » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 13:26:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'n') my neighborhood, there is a fairly non-insignificant number of muslims. Want to know what I've discovered?

They are just ordinary people.

Some have jobs, some don't. Some have kids, some don't. Some own thier homes, some rent. Some have manners, some don't. Some are devout, some can't even tell me where the nearest mosque is. Some hate, some don't.

They worry about the bills, hope the schools are safe and complain about high taxes.

I can no more hate a typical muslim because of the actions of a few fundamentalists than I could all jews because of the actions of a few zionists. Or all christians because of Pat Robertson.

And I will not engage in a crusade against a people who my government declares an enemy, just because they happen to live on top of oil.

Nor will I perpetually live in fear of some faceless enemy who hates me. To live in fear is to surrender your own will to those who would exploit you.


Sure, they worry about the same things, but they are not muslims in the truest sense.

The threat is from those that truly practice what Islam preaches. The killing, paedophilia, raping, stoning, abuse of women and general backwardness of Sharia law, to name but a few. Unfortunately there are thousands, maybe millions of these "true believers" out there. The rest of the "cafeteria" muslims are complicit in their silence.


Here's a great example of a true muslim.

Abu Bakr Bashir: "The only model to follow is pure Islam. Because Islam in its original form was tough and hard, not weak and pliable. Islam is fixed, stable, ordered and disciplined, and so are Muslims.

If we return to the real practice of true Islam we would be much stronger and that is when the kafirs will fear us. That is why we need to uphold the Shariah and return to real Islam. But the West is trying to weaken Islam from outside and inside. They attack our people and invade our countries from outside, and they weaken us from within with ideas like secularism, liberalism and democracy. This is all designed to contaminate our pure Islam."

This is the threat that Robert Spencer is trying to get people in the west to see.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Eli » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 13:33:30

Dreamtwister I agree whole heartily with your post.

When we take a closer look at the Koran and Islam it is important that we do not make that an excuse to hate.

They are not some monolithic group who are all of the same mind, most of them are very decent and kind people.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Miki » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 14:12:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'D')reamtwister I agree whole heartily with your post.

When we take a closer look at the Koran and Islam it is important that we do not make that an excuse to hate.

They are not some monolithic group who are all of the same mind, most of them are very decent and kind people.


I must have misunderstood all your posts in this thread because I've been trying to say exactly that to you, and it was my impression that you were arguing against it.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Miki » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 14:27:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'S')ure, they worry about the same things, but they are not muslims in the truest sense.


Of course not. Only those that fit your stereotypes and confirm your prejudism are.

How many Muslims have you interacted with Oil4you? How many times have you been to the ME? How many courses on Muslim culture have you taken? How many conferences on Islamic Studies have you attended?

In other words, what makes you think you have the knowledge necessary to know what "true Islam" is about, and what "a true Muslim" is like. I live in a country where 60% of the people are Muslim, and I have yet to meet a Muslim that fits your prejudiced thinking.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he threat is from those that truly practice what Islam preaches. The killing, paedophilia, raping, stoning, abuse of women and general backwardness of Sharia law, to name but a few. Unfortunately there are thousands, maybe millions of these "true believers" out there. The rest of the "cafeteria" muslims are complicit in their silence.


1-You don't even know what Islam actually preaches to start with.

2-Rape, child abuse, spouse abuse, murder, paedophilia, incest, etc are as common in the West as they are in the Muslim world--if not more common. There has not been a single scientific study that has proven otherwise. If you want to make these claims, please pesent us with some statistics based on scientific studies. Otherwise, these are just void claims that only reflect your own prejudism.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ere's a great example of a true muslim.

Abu Bakr Bashir:


Thanks. Now we know that whenever we have a question about Islam or Muslim culture we need to ask Abu Bakr Bashir, cause he's a true Muslim.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his is the threat that Robert Spencer is trying to get people in the west to see.


Spencer is a bigot. Go to his Jihad Watch website and try posting a comment that opposes his views. He'll just delete it. Check all his articles and you won't find a single comment against his views. And you want us to think he's an objective source? He's as prejudiced as you are.

What you need to do is start interacting with the Muslim community in your area. THAT is the only way to learn about Islam and Muslim culture. If you prefer, interact only with the *practicing* Muslims, and you'll find out by yourself that all your stereotypes and prejudism are based on faulty generalization, hate, and biased information.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Miki » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 14:39:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'n') my neighborhood, there is a fairly non-insignificant number of muslims. Want to know what I've discovered?

They are just ordinary people.


And that's the problem Dreamtwister---that those people who have the most rigid stereotypes and the worst cases of prejudism are the ones who *avoid* the people from the cultures that they find unpleasant. It is a vicious cycle that has been clearly documented by Social Psychology: You start with an irrational belief about a group, you avoid the group so you are never exposed to alternative information; this leads you to confirm your bias and further avoid the group, and so on.

That's why I keep telling the prejudiced people in this website that they need to learn about Islam and Muslim culture by interacting with as many Muslims as they can and visiting the ME. Otherwise, they are only learning about Muslim culture through propaganda, and that propaganda shows the extremist minorities, and no one else, giving the impression that most Muslims are like that or that Islam preaches extremism/terrorism.

The paradoxical thing is that most of them have never/would never interact actively with Muslims. Yet, they feel they know enough to crticize Muslim culture, when their own cultures are packed full of negative behaviors.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby oil4u » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 15:34:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'S')ure, they worry about the same things, but they are not muslims in the truest sense.


Of course not. Only those that fit your stereotypes and confirm your prejudism are.

How many Muslims have you interacted with Oil4you? How many times have you been to the ME? How many courses on Muslim culture have you taken? How many conferences on Islamic Studies have you attended?

In other words, what makes you think you have the knowledge necessary to know what "true Islam" is about, and what "a true Muslim" is like. I live in a country where 60% of the people are Muslim, and I have yet to meet a Muslim that fits your prejudiced thinking.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he threat is from those that truly practice what Islam preaches. The killing, paedophilia, raping, stoning, abuse of women and general backwardness of Sharia law, to name but a few. Unfortunately there are thousands, maybe millions of these "true believers" out there. The rest of the "cafeteria" muslims are complicit in their silence.


1-You don't even know what Islam actually preaches to start with.

2-Rape, child abuse, spouse abuse, murder, paedophilia, incest, etc are as common in the West as they are in the Muslim world--if not more common. There has not been a single scientific study that has proven otherwise. If you want to make these claims, please pesent us with some statistics based on scientific studies. Otherwise, these are just void claims that only reflect your own prejudism.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ere's a great example of a true muslim.

Abu Bakr Bashir:


Thanks. Now we know that whenever we have a question about Islam or Muslim culture we need to ask Abu Bakr Bashir, cause he's a true Muslim.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his is the threat that Robert Spencer is trying to get people in the west to see.


Spencer is a bigot. Go to his Jihad Watch website and try posting a comment that opposes his views. He'll just delete it. Check all his articles and you won't find a single comment against his views. And you want us to think he's an objective source? He's as prejudiced as you are.

What you need to do is start interacting with the Muslim community in your area. THAT is the only way to learn about Islam and Muslim culture. If you prefer, interact only with the *practicing* Muslims, and you'll find out by yourself that all your stereotypes and prejudism are based on faulty generalization, hate, and biased information.

The words and actions of the world's Muslims, is enough for me. I have no desire to visit any of those backwaters in the middle east. Episodes like the Danish Cartoon violence, pretty much sum up the muslim thought process (or lack of one).

Here's what the muslim community thinks of Canada.

The Globe and Mail published the internet musings of some of the wives of this broad strata of society. Notable among the Braod Strata Broads are the musings of Nada Farooq, wife of the alleged ringleader of the terrorist cabal, Zakaria Amara. She wanted a jihad clause in her pre-nup, and had a lot of other lovely thoughts as well:

Ms. Farooq’s hatred for the country is palpable. She hardly ever calls Canada by its name, rather repeatedly referring to it as “this filthy country.” It’s a sentiment shared by many of her friends, one of whom states that the laws of the country are irrelevant because they are not the laws of God….”Who cares? We hate Canada.”…

Not a group I'd care to interact with. If they're that unhappy, then why don't they move to an Islamic paradise, like Iran or Somalia? Because they have the greater cause of Jihad in mind. Conversion, Dhimmitude or Death. Take your pick.


The Koran backs up any claim I made. I'd suggest you read it, without a jaundiced eye. Example: Mohammed was married to a child = Paedophile.

Call him every nasty name you can think of Miki, but Spencer is doing the world a great service by at least waking people up to the threat that's in their own backyard. Islam=Nazism

BTW - IS Bashir a true muslim or isn't he? If not, then why? C'mon Miki, you're the self professed, Catholic expert on Islam.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Miki » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 16:05:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'T')he words and actions of the world's Muslims, is enough for me. I have no desire to visit any of those backwaters in the middle east. Episodes like the Danish Cartoon violence, pretty much sum up the muslim thought process (or lack of one).


Fine. Keep generalizing from a minority to a whole culture. Keep judging Muslim culture from a Western perspective. You probably think that the world revolves around "America" and that "America" is the prototype of democracy, human rights, civilization, and culture. I hope you continue to enjoy your little world where you interact with more people like you that confirm your limited views based on your limited experience and education. It would be better for you to never get out of your confort zone. Stay right where you are. You'll enjoy life better.

If you want to continue being prejudiced and ignorant that's your business. I've been replying to your points only because I want to clarify the irrationality of these stereotypes for all the readers of these forums.

There is no one as blind as that who doesn't want to see. The information is on the table. Those who are educated, intelligent, and broad-minded know what to do with it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ere's what the muslim community thinks of Canada.


And the Canadian Muslim community is represented by the wife of a terrorist. Very interesting.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Koran backs up any claim I made. I'd suggest you read it, without a jaundiced eye. Example: Mohammed was married to a child = Paedophile.


I'm sure you've read it from cover to cover Oil4you.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')all him every nasty name you can think of Miki, but Spencer is doing the world a great service by at least waking people up to the threat that's in their own backyard. Islam=Nazism


If Islam is Nazism, what do you call the Bush administration that has no problem slaughtering millions of people just because they're not White Americans? What do you call the Israelis that kill Palestinians like rats and have them in an apartheid-like state of discrimination?
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby oil4u » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 16:10:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')
Yet, they feel they know enough to crticize Muslim culture, when their own cultures are packed full of negative behaviors.


Unlike Islam, which of course has no negative behaviours. It's ok to murder Christians, Jews, etc. Honor killing is ok. Paedophillia is ok. Manufacturing and exporting heroin is ok. Nope, nothing negative there.

Let me sum up the effect of Islam on society: blasphemy laws, anti-semitism, honor killings, tyranny, hijackings, beheadings, political violence, intolerance of other traditions, and submission to a deity interpreted by an ego-sensitive mass murderer

Did you know that there are 123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah? Here are but a few passages:

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78)

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Dreamtwister » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 16:12:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'T')he words and actions of the world's Muslims, is enough for me. I have no desire to visit any of those backwaters in the middle east. Episodes like the Danish Cartoon violence, pretty much sum up the muslim thought process (or lack of one).


I can't remember what it was, but someone mentioned the real cause of that outbreak of violence, and it had NOTHING to do with some cartoons in a paper half-way around the world.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'H')ere's what the muslim community thinks of Canada.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Globe and Mail published the internet musings of some of the wives of this broad strata of society. Notable among the Braod Strata Broads are the musings of Nada Farooq, wife of the alleged ringleader of the terrorist cabal, Zakaria Amara. She wanted a jihad clause in her pre-nup, and had a lot of other lovely thoughts as well:

Ms. Farooq’s hatred for the country is palpable. She hardly ever calls Canada by its name, rather repeatedly referring to it as “this filthy country.” It’s a sentiment shared by many of her friends, one of whom states that the laws of the country are irrelevant because they are not the laws of God….”Who cares? We hate Canada.”…


Not a group I'd care to interact with. If they're that unhappy, then why don't they move to an Islamic paradise, like Iran or Somalia? Because they have the greater cause of Jihad in mind. Conversion, Dhimmitude or Death. Take your pick.


First, do you have a link for that? I read the Globe and Mail on occasion, but I don't recall this "feature".

Second, if I walked up to a skinhead and asked him "Say, how do your friends feel about black people?" what do you think he would say? People invariably surround themselves with like-minded individuals, so of course this woman's friends share her own rediculous opinions.

For crying out loud, her husband was just arrested! What did you think she would say? If you were arrested tomorrow (This is strictly hypothetical), I imagine your wife might say something similar, regardless of whether you were guilty or not.

Third, and I can't stress enough, that these people are a minority. Her opinion is *not* representitive of the muslim community in Canada, and I say this as a white person who lives in a first generation immigrant neighborhood in Toronto, completely surrounded by muslim immigrants.

Fourth, all you have done is confirm that your only source of information is from the extremely biased media. You have no first-hand knowledge, and therefore are incapable contributing to the discussion in any way.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'T')he Koran backs up any claim I made. I'd suggest you read it, without a jaundiced eye. Example: Mohammed was married to a child = Paedophile.


Just because your (and my own, I might add) culture frowns on this type of behaviour does not give you the right to determine it's morality for a completely different culture. This time, it is *us* who are in the minority. The bulk of the world's population still to this day recognizes this type of behaviour as acceptable to varying degrees.

The jews think we are heading straight to hell for eating pork. Does that mean we should all stop eating pork, just because they find it offensive?
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby nwildmand » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 16:20:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'I') really do think that there is a "fog of political correctness" that blinds people to the truth about Islam.


Huh? How many times have you seen Muslims portrayed positively in your media dude? Please!


muslims are portrayed everyday as a peace loving religion. its the politicaly correct thing to do.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'W')hy people try and pretend that Islam is a religion of peace when the founder himself participated in over 70 battles in an effort to spread his faith is beyond me.


Just like Bush and the neocons and the people that voted for him argue that they're Christians when the US has fought 100 wars in the last 100 years


thats a bald faced lie and you know it. while we may have had many deployments most of them would only be miscontrued as war by people like yourself.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'M')r Spencer is the director of Jihad Watch (see below). Whoever checks his website knows what his agenda is.

its no more biased than the crap sources you quote.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'I')slamic extremists are a MINORITY. Their interpretation of Islam is considered to be WRONG by MOST MUSLIMS.

Six per cent may seem a small proportion but in absolute numbers it amounts to about 100,000 individuals who, if not prepared to carry out terrorist acts, are ready to support those who do.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'Y')ou know very little about Islam, so you can't judge that.

i think you have said this a thousand times. it is not a very good argument. hes knows well more than enough to make a judgement.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'B')ottomline is that both the Bible/Christianity and the Koran/Islam can be used and have historically been used to justify the killing and or convertion of the infidels. If you accuse Muslims of that, you should admit that Christians and Jews have exactly the same problem. Otherwise, just accept that neither religion emphasizes this today, and that both Christianity and Islam advocate peace in our days, and that both religions have extremists/radicals, and that both religions allow the use of violence for self-defense

the diference is our military is made of all races and religions. not just the same retards screaming allah akbar.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')That is incorrect. Their interpretation of Islam is wrong. It is not your opinion or mine that counts in these matter. It is the opinion of Most Imams and most Muslims, [b]and most Imams and most Muslims believe that the terrorists' interpretation of the Koran and Islam is wrong.

how do you know thier interpretation is wrong? you have said yourself that the quran is open to interpretation. pretty hard to have a correct interpretation when thier stone age language does not even have vowels.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'Y')es, they can, and they've repeated it one million times. That is their official position. Check the CAIR website for a very long list of American and world Muslim organizations and scholars condeming terrorism and rejecting the view that these extremist attitudes are based on an accurate interpretation of Islam.

i see you brought cair again. an organization infiltrated by terrorists devoted to downplaying terrorists.
http://www.anti-cair-net.org/
your last defence of cair was less than pathetic and as long as you bring them up i will bring the truth up.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', ' ')I have yet to meet a Muslim that fits your prejudiced thinking.

i dont beileve that for a second. or you are just that gullible. first muslim my friend met was getting shit while praying on his rug. he looked up and said were here to kill all of you. second one i met just about hit us disobeying traffic laws. third one i met could not stop complaining how hard our job was. he was lazy. i made sure he did not last 2 days. so im 3 for 3 meeting shitty arabs and i dont care to meet another one.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', ' ')And you want us to think he's an objective source? He's as prejudiced as you are.

and about as prejudiced as most of your sources miki.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'W')hat you need to do is start interacting with the Muslim community in your area.

im sure glad we dont have any around here. i feel a hell of a lot safer without them. i dont think they would feel safe here either. notice how we dont have germans or japanese doing this shit. and we waged a real war against them. not like arabs are capable of a real war anyway.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby oil4u » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 16:34:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'T')he words and actions of the world's Muslims, is enough for me. I have no desire to visit any of those backwaters in the middle east. Episodes like the Danish Cartoon violence, pretty much sum up the muslim thought process (or lack of one).


I can't remember what it was, but someone mentioned the real cause of that outbreak of violence, and it had NOTHING to do with some cartoons in a paper half-way around the world.



$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'H')ere's what the muslim community thinks of Canada.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Globe and Mail published the internet musings of some of the wives of this broad strata of society. Notable among the Braod Strata Broads are the musings of Nada Farooq, wife of the alleged ringleader of the terrorist cabal, Zakaria Amara. She wanted a jihad clause in her pre-nup, and had a lot of other lovely thoughts as well:

Ms. Farooq’s hatred for the country is palpable. She hardly ever calls Canada by its name, rather repeatedly referring to it as “this filthy country.” It’s a sentiment shared by many of her friends, one of whom states that the laws of the country are irrelevant because they are not the laws of God….”Who cares? We hate Canada.”…


Not a group I'd care to interact with. If they're that unhappy, then why don't they move to an Islamic paradise, like Iran or Somalia? Because they have the greater cause of Jihad in mind. Conversion, Dhimmitude or Death. Take your pick.


First, do you have a link for that? I read the Globe and Mail on occasion, but I don't recall this "feature".




Second, if I walked up to a skinhead and asked him "Say, how do your friends feel about black people?" what do you think he would say? People invariably surround themselves with like-minded individuals, so of course this woman's friends share her own rediculous opinions.

For crying out loud, her husband was just arrested! What did you think she would say? If you were arrested tomorrow (This is strictly hypothetical), I imagine your wife might say something similar, regardless of whether you were guilty or not.

Third, and I can't stress enough, that these people are a minority. Her opinion is *not* representitive of the muslim community in Canada, and I say this as a white person who lives in a first generation immigrant neighborhood in Toronto, completely surrounded by muslim immigrants.

Fourth, all you have done is confirm that your only source of information is from the extremely biased media. You have no first-hand knowledge, and therefore are incapable contributing to the discussion in any way.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'T')he Koran backs up any claim I made. I'd suggest you read it, without a jaundiced eye. Example: Mohammed was married to a child = Paedophile.


Just because your (and my own, I might add) culture frowns on this type of behaviour does not give you the right to determine it's morality for a completely different culture. This time, it is *us* who are in the minority. The bulk of the world's population still to this day recognizes this type of behaviour as acceptable to varying degrees.

The jews think we are heading straight to hell for eating pork. Does that mean we should all stop eating pork, just because they find it offensive?

What was it then? What set them off? Please provide me a link, if it wasn't the cartoons.

The Globe and Mail article is behind a subscription wall.

Try this
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/2081

or this
http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=4156


She wrote this before the arrests. Again, I'm not saying all Canadian Muslims are like this, but a good bunch of them are. Even the moderates are now afraid.

Fearing for safety, Muslim official quits

By SONYA FATAH

Thursday, August 3, 2006, Page A1

Tarek Fatah, the outspoken, controversial communications director of the Muslim Canadian Congress, has resigned, citing concerns for his safety and that of his family.
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/007210.html

You have a typical Dhimmi attitude. Always making excuses apologizing for them. It must be our fault. Something we did. Remember they are MUSLIM FIRST...Canadian second.

Biased? Watching 2 Jets, slam into the twin towers (piloted by Islamic whackos) made the threat we all face, very clear


Sorry I don't find peadophillia ok, whether the bulk of the world thinks so or not. It's disgusting and I can't believe you are condoning it or at the very least making excuses for it's practice. We have laws here, desgned to protect children from this type of abuse. Are you saying we should scrap them, because the rest of the world thinks it's ok to marry children? Again, give me some links on this. I'd like to see where these perverts live.
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Re: Cspan Video about Islam by Robert Spencer

Postby Dreamtwister » Tue 22 Aug 2006, 16:53:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'W')hat was it then? What set them off? Please provide me a link, if it wasn't the cartoons.


As I said, I don't recall what it was. I do remember that it was posted around here somewhere, and it made an impression, although not a very big one, apparently.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'I') think it's behind a subscription wall.

Try this
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/2081

or this
http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=4156


That figures. Oh well, at least I can trust the unbiased reporting from the good people at www.militantislammonitor.org :roll:


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'S')he wrote this before the arrests. Again, I'm not saying all Canadian Muslims are like this, but a good bunch of them are. Even the moderates are now afraid.

Fearing for safety, Muslim official quits

By SONYA FATAH

Thursday, August 3, 2006, Page A1

Tarek Fatah, the outspoken, controversial communications director of the Muslim Canadian Congress, has resigned, citing concerns for his safety and that of his family.
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/007210.html


So...being afraid makes them all terrorists? I'm not sure I follow your logic.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'Y')ou have a typical Dhimmi attitude. Always making excuses apologizing for them. It must be our fault. Something we did. Remember they are MUSLIM FIRST...Canadian second.


I'm not apologizing for anyone. I'm trying to point out that not only are all muslims not terrorists, the ones who are comprise an extremely small minority. Nothing more, nothing less.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oil4u', 'S')orry I don't find peadophillia ok, whether the bulk of the world thinks so or not. It's disgusting and I can't believe you are condoning it or at the very least making excuses for it's practice

I don't find it OK either, but I'm not so arrogant as to attempt to impose my personal morality on 5/6 of the worl'd population.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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