[Kingcoal]

It goes back to the old saying that if you borrow a $million and can't pay it back, you have a problem, but if you borrow a $billion and can't pay it back, the bank has a problem also. The world would love it if the US started paying down its accounts, but they wouldn't love the associated huge slow down in sales. All over the developing world, fast growing economies would have to downsize production, which would be devastating because you would suddenly have mass unemployment. God knows what would happen to equities, commodities and currencies.

On the other hand, if the EU would step up and start buying like crazy, the torch could be handed over and Euric and Lorenzo would be in heaven. The EU would then become the driver of the world economy and the Euro would replace the dollar as the de facto currency. This would require the EU members to give up their producer status and reinvent themselves as "service economies." The EU central bank would have to vastly expand its ability to print Euros and the EU would have to form a military capable of policing the world. Somehow, with the strength of EU labor Unions, I don't see that happening. In my opinion, Europe has he best of all worlds now and the vast majority of EU residents know it (excluding a couple that post on this site.)

Until a new candidate comes along, the world will continue to feed the monster no matter how much the debt.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'I')t goes back to the old saying that if you borrow a $million and can't pay it back, you have a problem, but if you borrow a $billion and can't pay it back, the bank has a problem also. The world would love it if the US started paying down its accounts, but they wouldn't love the associated huge slow down in sales. All over the developing world, fast growing economies would have to downsize production, which would be devastating because you would suddenly have mass unemployment. God knows what would happen to equities, commodities and currencies.

[MrBill]

RE coalition of the willing. US politics aside. Who is called upon to police the world's warzones? The UK, the USA, Australia and to some degree a host of other countries, like France, when it suits them, and Canada when they also get roped into a multi-national force. But really, going back to Australia. Above and beyond the call of duty in Asia disputes you'l l find Aussies roped in to helping out. Those who can do, those who can't hurl abuse from the sidelines.

[Tyler_JC]

How about we take a look at foreign debt levels per capita?

Or maybe as a % of GDP?

Is anyone interested in that data? I could create a basic spreadsheet for it...

[Fergus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'H')ow about we take a look at foreign debt levels per capita?

Or maybe as a % of GDP?

Is anyone interested in that data? I could create a basic spreadsheet for it...

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'H')ow about we take a look at foreign debt levels per capita?

Or maybe as a % of GDP?

Is anyone interested in that data? I could create a basic spreadsheet for it...

[Tyler_JC]

I think there's a problem with the data that the CIA factbook puts out.

I got some pretty crazy numbers!

The first set of big numbers is the external debt of each nation.

Mind you, the second set of numbers is external debt per capita (I don't think it is the net external debt per capita, meaning, some of these countries must be net creditors...or else where would the money come from??)

The third set of numbers is the Debt as a % of GDP.

United States$8,837,000,000,000 ...$29,610...71% of GDP
China $252,800,000,000 ...$192...3% of GDP
Japan $1,545,000,000,000 ...$12,121...38% of GDP
India $125,500,000,000 ...$114...3% of GDP
Germany $3,626,000,000,000 ...$43,992...145% of GDP
United Kingdom $7,107,000,000,000 ...$117,259...388% of GDP
France $2,826,000,000,000 ...$46,422...156% of GDP
Italy $922,500,000,000 ...$15,869...54% of GDP
Russia $215,300,000,000 ...$1,507...14% of GDP
Brazil $188,000,000,000 ...$1,000...12% of GDP
Canada $922,500,000,000 ...$27,871...83% of GDP
Mexico $137,200,000,000 ...$1,277...13% of GDP
Spain $970,700,000,000 ...$24,029...94% of GDP
Korea, South$153,900,000,000 ...$3,151...16% of GDP
Indonesia $135,000,000,000 ...$550...16% of GDP
Australia $323,400,000,000 ...$15,959...51% of GDP
Taiwan $87,500,000,000 ...$3,798...14% of GDP
Turkey $170,100,000,000...$2,416...30% of GDP
Iran $19,060,000,000 ...$277...3% of GDP
Netherlands$1,645,000,000,000 ...$99,749...329% of GDP
Ireland $1,049,000,000,000 ...$258,232...637% of GDP
Belgium $980,100,000,000 ...$94,430...302% of GDP
Switzerland $856,000,000,000 ...$113,770...354% of GDP
Sweden $516,100,000,000 ...$57,239...193% of GDP
Austria $510,600,000,000 ...$62,322...191% of GDP

Clearly something is wrong with the CIA Factbook's definition of external debt.

In this scenario, Ireland is in need of a serious IMF bailout!

Also, Iran looks like a major economic superpower compared to the financially devastated nations of Central and Northern Europe.

I can't find a decent list of net external debt by country.

[jaws]

Keep in mind that if you apply GAAP accounting rules to the U.S. debt the number is a lot larger than if you take the official government number.

[Madpaddy]

Irelands national debt is 38billion euros and its GDP is €161 billion euros. I would say we don't have a major problem (YET). My source is the Irish Central Statisitics Office.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'K')eep in mind that if you apply GAAP accounting rules to the U.S. debt the number is a lot larger than if you take the official government number.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'T')hose who can do, those who can't hurl abuse from the sidelines.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'T')hose who can do, those who can't hurl abuse from the sidelines.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'A')re they getting a British pension/benefits? Or am I mistaken?

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'I')deally, it should not be like this
Why should Australia assume all these burdens? The simple answer is that no one else is willing. Whenever things get tough in the South Pacific, the call goes out not to the United Nations in New York but to the prime minister's lodge in Canberra.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '
')I believe this is deliberate,

(a) monitoring your own backyard is important for both yourself and those being 'monitored'.

(b) Australia has a special interest in

i. Oil in the sea between Timor and Australia
ii. Keeping the peace in this region

(c) [s]Howard wants to be Bush's Southern Sheriff[/s].

Honestly, places like The Solomans etc are going to respond far better to Australian and New Zealander troops than American....

Personally I think you should get a UN rebate for the more ops you do.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'A')re they getting a British pension/benefits? Or am I mistaken?

[sch_peakoiler]

I read this list again and one interesting occured to me. Actually I have been thinking about this for some time now.

First I sum up:

So what do we have: US has basically put others into a situation where US prints whatever dollars they want and other countries are FORCED to accept them as "legal tender". Schmonsequences will be dire if it is not the case - all the world's economy will contract shoud America stop bying. Right? This is the general opinion of many on this forum and I totally agree with it.

Basically, US f'd the world in the A and continues to do so every frelling day. any US citizen on welfare gets more money than a chinese serf sees in a year! An american is worried that he will probably have to move out of a SF 1000 house to a ...... SHOCK AND AWE - SF 500 house!!! You barely survive this, I agree, but this is not what I would call an economic hardship. USA rules the world, in theory and in practice.

Now the thing I thought about.

And who created this situation? People who rule the USA. Be it the President or be it the shadow illuminati - they did this. Is this not the most brilliant thing you can do for your citizens? Is it not the absolute example of how the government can be there for its citizens, putting them before anything, standing for them and their interests? Yet the same people on this forum who agree with what I wrote above - blame the US government. For nothing actually. Is there a reason to blame a government for, a government which got your country to the top of the power and wealth?? Is it not a wrong perception of the situation by these people?

[Petrodollar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he first thing I noticed that the 4 countries with the worst debt, are/were members of the "Coalition of the Willing":

Spain
Australia
UK
US

That's interesting.

[ClassicSpiderman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I') think there's a problem with the data that the CIA factbook puts out....I got some pretty crazy numbers!

United States$8,837,000,000,000 ...$29,610...71% of GDP
Canada $922,500,000,000 ...$27,871...83% of GDP

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s of March 31, 2004, the Government had $440.2 billion of market debt composed of marketable bonds, Treasury bills, retail debt, foreign currency debt, Canada Pension Plan bonds, and obligations related to capital leases, and $61.7 billion of liquid financial assets composed of domestic cash balances and foreign exchange assets.

(blah, blah, blah continued)

Combined with forecast economic growth, the federal debt-to-GDP ratio—the level of debt in relation to the country’s annual income—remains on a downward track. On an accrual basis, the federal debt (accumulated deficit) as a percentage of the economy is projected to fall to 38.8 per cent in 2004–05, down from its peak of 68.4 per cent in 1995–96. With the commitment to balanced budgets in each of the next five fiscal years, it is forecast to decline to about 30.6 per cent in 2009–10.

In terms of international debt burden comparisons, taking into account the accounting methods of various sovereigns, the debt burden of Canada’s total government sector has declined the fastest among Group of Seven (G-7) countries since the mid-1990s. Between 1995 and 2004, Canada’s net financial liabilities as a percentage of GDP (akin to the debt-to-GDP ratio) are estimated to have been reduced by 38.2 percentage points. Consequently, Canada’s total government debt burden moved from being the second highest among the G-7 countries to the lowest in 2004. According to the OECD, Canada’s debt burden is expected to decline further in both 2005 and 2006, while the debt burdens of the other G-7 countries, with the exception of Italy, will increase.