[entropyfails]

Folks, we’ve all got opinions. I’ve got them, you have them. And we all know what utter nonsense other peoples opinions are. Everywhere I see all this wild speculation from “everything will be exactly the sameâ€

[Jack]

Have you considered the possibility that we live on a predator world?

The smallest animals eat the plants, the larger animals eat the smaller ones, and the plants use nutrients from the animals.

Thus, those taking resources for their own use may be more true to the pattern of their creation than those who crave another path.

[Rembrandt]

I think you are confusing experience with Thought?

The essence of what you are saying i just be for 1 second right? don't make interpretation. By having insight let everything go and just be?

It isn't really clear to me.

Besides that you can have a clear idea of what possible things might happen. By exploring all these paths there follows a path which is most likely and to which you can anticipate.

Just doing nothing and accepting the situation isn't going to help. You have to have both feet on the ground and deal with reality.

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'H')ave you considered the possibility that we live on a predator world? The smallest animals eat the plants, the larger animals eat the smaller ones,

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'H')ave you considered the possibility that we live on a predator world? The smallest animals eat the plants, the larger animals eat the smaller ones,

[RollOver]

I disagree with your idea that the future is not knowable. We all make probability estimates about the future. You have plans for tomorrow so you think it is probable that you will be here.

People like Campbell, Duncan, et.al., apply knowledge to determine what is probable. The results may yield a fuzzy picture of the future, but a faded map is better than none at all. Richard Duncan's assertion that oil production in 2025 will be equal to oil production in 1930 has a scientific basis. Campbell's estimate that peak oil will occur in 2008 has a scientific basis.

Certain inferences relating to population carrying capacity at these levels of energy exploitation can be made and while the exact details cannot be known, it seems a high probability that population levels will be reduced. How could it be that population could go up while energy per capital falls off sharply?

Jack is completely correct when he points out that we are all in competition for energy to sustain our individual existences. Certainly this competition will take on an added degree of urgency as there is not enough energy to sustain all of us.

Good thing that we have a lot of passive people (who will become more so without adequate nutrition) to volunteer to be some of those who do not go on into the future. The law of "survival of the fittest" has not been repealed to my knowledge.

[jato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')f course. I would not be surprised in the least; in fact, I live according to the basic assumption that others are entirely willing to predate me and mine.

[Marco]

Hi entropyfails,

I liked your post. It was one of the more philosophical I have read. If I read you correctly you are sort of proposing a Ghandian solution. That is, people should reflect (through meditation) on their lives and try to put it into a more spiritual and meaningful context.

Some people do try and do that- and they are usually the ones who live simpler, more satisfying lives. Sadly I am not one of these. I am not talking here of the religious right who put Jesus in a business suit in order to give his kiss of blessing to their rapacitity and ignorance. I am talking of people who make a conscious decision to interact with more sensitivity to their environment. It reminds me of the Buddhist monks who pray for the lives of insects they may accidentally crush during the day.

Humans are intelligent (if not entirely rational beings). We cannot help but to see the world through the selfish prism of our own conscious. The one thing that separates us from other animals is our ability to predict the future-indeed to shape it to our needs. It is how we shape that is the problem. We have forgotten that we are part of nature-and dependent on it for our own existence.

Worse- most of us in the west live lives of luxury only dreamt of by other societies. We debate here on the likely futures and how bad they could be. We forget that for most of the world, our future is their reality now.

Some posters speak of our predatory environment. To an extent this is true. But we should remember that the west predates on weaker nations to support our affluence right now. If the US and other industrial nations were to fail as a result of PO- would those we predate on be sorrowful at our demise? I think not. If people were to stop and think in these terms- not of predation but co-operation, then we might yet find a way through.


I think you are right- individuals need to reflect on the meaning of their lives- and we also need to do it on a collective basis. Let us not forget that as Greek freedom was built on Greek slavery- so too has western freedoms and lifestyles been built on third world poverty and exploitation.

Its not just about the oil guys.

regards Marco

[Chocky]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ur path beyond this does not lie with figuring out how many pounds of water we need. It does not require a hording of goods and weapons... ...In short, as long as you think you will find a way out, you play into that fear.

[Specop_007]

Can I get a Cliff Notes on that first post, I really dont want to read all of that.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'H')ave you considered the possibility that we live on a predator world? The smallest animals eat the plants, the larger animals eat the smaller ones,

[Barbara]

No, we don't live in a predator world.
There are far less lions than gazelles. When the contrary, lions die quickly.
Predators are only for the purpose of equilibrium, but they don't rule the world at all.

Just check history: when predator peoples got too powerful, they always felt miserably. This is how he world goes... do someone care to inform Ann Coulter and her followers?

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '
')Then please do not be suprised or angry when someone 'goes predator' on you, your property and/or your family.

Because with such a worldview you should just accept actions of force vs your body, your property and/or your family as "just part of life" then move on.

[jato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow many believe that Jack or SpecOp would feel a robbery or beating is 'just part of life' then move on?

[Chocky]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow many believe that Jack or SpecOp would feel a robbery or beating is 'just part of life' then move on?

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', 'N')o, we don't live in a predator world.
There are far less lions than gazelles. When the contrary, lions die quickly.
Predators are only for the purpose of equilibrium, but they don't rule the world at all.

[entropyfails]

Very entertaining all!

So what have we learned from this thread.

One, we live in a dangerous world. You can get killed at any moment and the only thing that determines the victor comes from power relationships and causality. So my question to those emphasizing this facet of reality, do you think that all of your “preparationsâ€

[jato]

EntropyFails,

I am going to be honest with you. Your post went right over my head! Can you sum it up for me?

I understand the "we cannot predict the future" part. Whats the rest?

[Chocky]

[quote]do you think that all of your “preparationsâ€

[entropyfails]

[quote="Chocky"][quote]do you think that all of your “preparationsâ€