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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Titan Thread (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Saturn Moon Gas to supply all the energy we need

Postby Serendipity » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 10:59:33

You'll probably get more gas by putting a pipe in Uranus though.
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Re: Saturn Moon Gas to supply all the energy we need

Postby Atlantean_Relic » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 11:08:34

How about methane collectors attached to the asses of cows ?
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Re: Saturn Moon Gas to supply all the energy we need

Postby presidentsherrill » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 14:07:38

Apparently a few people don't understand that the person is completly insane and this isn't actually a joke post. I have noticed delusions like this while working with the oilonous tribes of republicanous 12 in the exxon mobil galaxy. This is a serious disease that this poor man has, and we should all give him the support he needs.
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Re: Saturn Moon Gas to supply all the energy we need

Postby holmes » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 14:25:44

hows about we just put the crack pipe DOWN! Thats really all we need to do, ya know.
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Re: Saturn Moon Gas to supply all the energy we need

Postby Zardoz » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 15:32:03

"First post", indeed. Spec, is that you? Or maybe it's Schweinie. Could be either one.

Whatever...
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Re: Saturn Moon Gas to supply all the energy we need

Postby 128shot » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 16:13:30

On a more serious note.


NASA has plans to start mining the moon for resources.
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Re: Saturn Moon Gas to supply all the energy we need

Postby oowolf » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 17:02:29

Too late. I heard "Turdblossom" speak on NPR today, saying we just need to build 100 or so nook-you-lar powered electricity generating plants and run our cars (must run cars at all costs) with electric batteries. WOW! a combination of 19th and mid20th c. technology will keep our superhighways filled forever. Instead of pumping CO2 into the air-where it will hang around for a few centuries-we can generate even bigger piles of radioactive waste that will be lethal to all life for hundreds of thousands of years. THAT'S PROGRESS.
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Re: Saturn Moon Gas to supply all the energy we need

Postby oowolf » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 17:06:05

Oh shit! I just read on LAOTC we're headed for "peak uranium". Bring on that moonbat gas!
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Re: Saturn Moon Gas to supply all the energy we need

Postby smallpoxgirl » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 17:11:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('128shot', 'N')ASA has plans to start mining the moon for resources.


Yeah. I heard the only thing they're waiting on is to perfect the phaser so that Spock doesn't get taken captive by hostile moonlings.
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The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Saturn Moon Gas to supply all the energy we need

Postby presidentsherrill » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 20:26:08

Didn't you hear? The got the phasers working. The problem now is, they can't seem to find spock.
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Evidence of hydrocarbon lakes on Titan

Postby dub_scratch » Mon 24 Jul 2006, 21:48:03

....Oh but the abiotic crackpots are gonna have a field day with this..


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Evidence of hydrocarbon lakes on Titan

By ALICIA CHANG, AP Science Writer

LOS ANGELES - Scientists said Monday they have found the first widespread evidence of giant hydrocarbon lakes on the surface of Saturn's planet-size moon Titan.
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The cluster of lakes was spotted near Titan's frigid north pole during a weekend flyby by the international Cassini spacecraft, which flew within 590 miles of the moon.

Researchers counted about a dozen lakes six to 62 miles wide. Some, which appeared as dark patches in radar images, were connected by channels, while others had tributaries flowing into them. Several were dried up, but the ones that contained liquid were most likely a mix of methane and ethane.

"It was a real potpourri," said Cassini scientist Jonathan Lunine of the University of Arizona.

Titan is one of two moons in the solar system known to possess a significant atmosphere similar to that of primordial Earth. But scientists have long puzzled over the source of its hazy atmosphere rich in nitrogen and methane.

Scientists believe methane gas breaks up in Titan's atmosphere and forms smog clouds that rain methane down to the surface. But the source of methane inside the moon, which releases the gas into the atmosphere, is still unknown, Lunine said.

Last year, Cassini found what appeared to be a liquid hydrocarbon lake about the size of Lake Ontario on Titan's south pole. But the recent flyby marked the first time the spacecraft spied a multitude of lakes.

Cassini's next Titan encounter will be Sept. 7, when it will be 620 miles away.

Cassini, funded by
NASA and the European and Italian space agencies, was launched in 1997 and took seven years to reach Saturn to explore the ringed planet and its many moons. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena.

Cassini's accompanying probe, Huygens, developed and controlled by the ESA, touched down on Titan in 2005.
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Re: Evidence of hydrocarbon lakes on Titan

Postby FireJack » Mon 24 Jul 2006, 21:58:14

Doesn't have anything to do with abiotic oil, mathane is not oil.

Does raise the interesting aspect of acutal useful things to go out in space for though. Of course getting something to saturn that can take signifigant quatities of fuel and bring it back will probably never happen but I guess there are things out there that would make space travel useful.
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Re: Evidence of hydrocarbon lakes on Titan

Postby EnergySpin » Mon 24 Jul 2006, 22:07:47

Well I do not know whether the "abiotics" are going to have a field trip with this or not. A significant minority of them, actually gather around Gould who has put forward a rather "biotic" theory of oil generation i.e. that it is generated by metabolic pathways and eventual decomposition of microbes in the lithosphere (geologists fell free to correct me if I got the wrong layer).

Analysis of adsorption spectra in various regions of the sky, have also confirmed the existence of aromatic molecules, purine rings and aminoacids in interstellar spaces, findings that have sparked intense debates about the origins of the building blocks of life.

Going back to the Titan lake findings, should I presume that the car- addicted "Titans" fill'em up when they go for picnic by the lake? :lol:
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Re: Evidence of hydrocarbon lakes on Titan

Postby rogerhb » Mon 24 Jul 2006, 22:08:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FireJack', 'b')ut I guess there are things out there that would make space travel useful.


Such as? (remember to include the word sustainable in your response)
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Re: Evidence of hydrocarbon lakes on Titan

Postby Lighthouse » Mon 24 Jul 2006, 22:09:23

Shiny. Lets move to Titan, build superhighways and use the Methane there.

Wait a minute. We are using the oil of the ME without living there, and we are transporting most of the oil the world needs in big tanker ship thingis over very big oceans.


Why don't we build a fleet of "Tanker Spacecraft", to bring the Methane down to earth. Wait, wait, wait, I've a better Idea: Why don't we build a massive Pipeline from Earth to Titan and pump the Methane down here?
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Re: Evidence of hydrocarbon lakes on Titan

Postby rogerhb » Mon 24 Jul 2006, 22:14:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'W')ait, wait, wait, I've a better Idea


Put all the people who want to use it on Titan.
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Re: Evidence of hydrocarbon lakes on Titan

Postby fluffy » Tue 25 Jul 2006, 04:52:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dub_scratch', '.')...Oh but the abiotic crackpots are gonna have a field day with this..


Well.. if the abotic crackpots actually knew the subject they talk about, they would not. But for some reason, those people who champion abotic oil tend, in general, not to be actual geologists. Thomas Gold was an astrophysiscist who thought that Earth was still outgassing (Oops, out by at least 4 billion years). And those who think that this oil comes from 100km down or so seem to think that it's possible to open a crack through 15km of ductile granite, which dosen't even happen in the biggest earthquakes.

The geochemical evidence shows that when earth first formed, Methane was indeed a common carbon species to come from volcanoes. There would have been a lot of abiotic gas, at least. However, Methane reacts with water in the presence of UV to form CO2 and hydrogen (the hydrogen escaping into space), so in the case of the inner planets a kind of solar-driven planetary oxidation happens over time, until all of the mantle methane is used up. Hence Venus, Earth and Mars all have CO2 as the dominant carbon species, even though Mars and Venus don't have significant photosynthesis. On Earth, the process appears to have completed by around 2.5 billion years ago.

Of course, the outer planets and their moons are subject to a much lower UV flux and so are much slower to lose their hydrogen - and in the case of Jupiter and Saturn, hydrogen is retained by gravity. Hence primordial methane remains.

Additioinally, in the case of planets with no liquid water such as Titan, methane breakdown is more complex; a UK photon may dislodge a hydrogen atom fro a methane molecule giving a CH3 free radical; this can then combine with another methane molecule to give Ethane plus another hydrogen atom. The gradual 'knocking off' of hydrogen in this way tends to produce the heavier carbon chains we see on the planet.
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Re: Evidence of hydrocarbon lakes on Titan

Postby TorrKing » Tue 25 Jul 2006, 05:07:55

It would be nice to bring in some extra hydrocarbons to burn, just to make sure that Global Warming really kicks in! :razz:

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Re: Evidence of hydrocarbon lakes on Titan

Postby Omnitir » Tue 25 Jul 2006, 11:15:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FireJack', 'b')ut I guess there are things out there that would make space travel useful.


Such as? (remember to include the word sustainable in your response)


Oh, I simply can’t resist.

You want to talk about sustainable? You think that sustainable is some ideal of lowering the population and living at one with nature?

The sad fact is that anything that does not involve humanity eventually learning to LIVE in space, is unsustainable. You can make the entire world your perfect little eco-friendly wonderland but it will always be unsustainable – it will only last until the next Earth shattering disaster inevitably hits, and all the efforts towards sustainability will have been for nothing as 99% of life on Earth goes the way of the dinosaurs.

It is guaranteed to happen as surely as oil production is going to peak, and the current environmental damage that everyone is so concerned about is trivial compared the horrendous damage the Earth will suffer when that day comes.

So yes there are things out there making space travel useful, such as the ONLY means to eventually achieve a truly sustainable civilisation.

Now who’s the doomer :-D


Oh and no, I don’t think hydrocarbons from Titan (er, which we've known about for some time BTW) are any kind of solution. Though near Earth orbit is bountiful, and fortunatly for our species some people have the foresight to pursue these resources.
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Re: Evidence of hydrocarbon lakes on Titan

Postby sch_peakoiler » Tue 25 Jul 2006, 11:56:14

and near orbit in your view is... how near?
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