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THE Asphalt Thread (merged)

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Roads: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby Sys1 » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 04:22:51

article

A sign of times to come. Not only we will need to craft VERY efficient cars, but actually, those cars will have to be very tough like... SUV ! This kind of article proves that the car civilization will not survive to peak oil.
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby seldom_seen » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 05:52:03

Mules are very surefooted. From shaky cliffsides to our dilapidated interstate highway system.

If you have a mule train you will be a player in interstate commerce of the future.

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Yeah, keep on laughing. Keep on laughing until you're living in your immobile SUV.
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby MC2 » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 07:27:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sys1', '[')url=http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/06/25/asphalt_putting_holes_in_repair_budgets_towns_say/]article[/url]
A sign of times to come. Not only we will need to craft VERY efficient cars, but actually, those cars will have to be very tough like... SUV ! This kind of article proves that the car civilization will not survive to peak oil.

Yep, it also points up the fact we all know that ignoring oil as an index to inflation is downright idiotic, as everything is tied to oil. I went to buy driveway patch (bags of asphalt, basically) last week and came back with about half what I went in to buy after the price doubled!
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby anthem » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 10:00:31

Time to go back to cobblestones. I found this link, from a historic preservation committee in Blair, NE, which argues that brick streets may be cheaper over the long run than asphalt. Brick streets can last 80 years or more, according to the article:

Blair Historic Preservation Alliance FAQ

Edit: The Blair link is about "brick" streets, not really cobblestones. Cobblestones are actually stones, not bricks, technically speaking. Stones would last longer than bricks. There are some other good links there about preserving brick and cobblestone streets.

I also saw a story that in Rome, Italy, there was a shortage of craftsmen skilled in cobblestone installation and repair. It was a few months (a year?) ago; I can't seem to find that article though.

Most of the formerly cobblestone streets in my city have been paved over with asphalt. Sure, the streets are smoother....now..

I'm guessing it will probably be much rougher than cobbles once repairs cease, and I'm sure it will be a hell of a lot muddier.
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby frankthetank » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 10:47:23

In my town of LaCrosse they wanted to rip up a couple of very old brick paved streets down by the campus (there the red brick) and pave them. Luckily it hasn't happened yet.
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby JustinFrankl » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 11:01:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sys1', 'T')his kind of article proves that the car civilization will not survive to peak oil.
If not this article, then maybe this one: Asphalt costs pave way for budget woes (Lebanon PA Daily News)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')kyrocketing oil prices have put many drivers in a foul mood for nearly a year.
Or this one: Asphalt prices run projects off county budget (Milwaukee Journal Sentinel)$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')nable to absorb a $1 million increase, the county sought new bids after deleting some paving projects, such as a stretch of Pilgrim Road in Menomonee Falls.
This one? High petroleum prices force Montana's asphalt prices to rise (Billings Gazette)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')DT Construction Engineer Mark Wissinger said that last year, in bidding an interstate project in Butte, prices came in about $260 to $300 per metric ton for a common type of asphalt used in large quantities for major projects. For a similar project this year in Ravalli County, asphalt will cost $410 to $440 per ton.
How about this one, in India: Rise in material cost stalls road repair works (The Hindu, India's national paper)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')rode Municipal Council revising the estimates has entrusted the work to the contractors. But works in many important roads were not undertaken.
Yet another:Price of petroleum driving asphalt, road repair costs upward (Garden City Telegram)$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;Anything that requires the use of petroleum products drives up the cost of each item," said Jim Jones, executive director of the Kansas Asphalt Pavement Association.


Are we having fun getting screwed yet?
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby Eli » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 11:54:54

Call me an idiot if you want but this makes sense to me.

It seems to me that if it is profitable to turn the bitumen in the tar sands and add water heat and time and turn it into fuel then it must be all that more profitable to do the same with the bitumen used to make asphalt.

With the bitumen used and produced during the refining of oil you already avoid the expense of using men and machines to dig the stuff out of the ground.
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby Pablo2079 » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 12:19:05

So, at some point we'll be ripping up asphalt roads for the bitumen? Or there will be a black market for it...

"This morning, a large section was discovered to be missing. More at 11."
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby mekrob » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 12:39:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')This morning, a large section of an interstate bridge was discovered to be missing. More at 11 if this information didn't reach you too late."
Bold was added material.

How much would one cubic foot, yard, metre of road be worth? I find it very doubtful that this will be pursued at first simply because the bitumen in the roads are worth so little and would produce so little gasoline or whatever disillate that you need. Copper, iron and steel will always be first (gold and silver and the like are stolen even when times are good so they don't count). By the time came that it would be necessary and profitable to dig this stuff up (the road I mean), the economy would have crashed so badly that few refiners would be in business and simply couldn't turn away 'easier' grades (above 20).

Is it possible to just use oil sands and Orincon 'oil' to pave our streets? We label these pretty much as bitumen, so doesn't that just eliminate one step and saves tons of money and energy? Not to mention we have a near endless supply of this bitumen.
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby PWALPOCO » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 13:48:29

Hover Cars for the win !!

Well, what with the wear and tear on the roads and with tyre costs (Tires to those in the US) apparently going up due to the oil price (sure Ive read that somewhere on the BBC) , we could save all the aggro by having hover cars instead .... I jest of course.

Hmmm , how about transport that uses metal wheels on metal tracks , now theres an idea.............

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All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby anthem » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 13:53:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '[')Is it possible to just use oil sands and Orincon 'oil' to pave our streets? We label these pretty much as bitumen, so doesn't that just eliminate one step and saves tons of money and energy? Not to mention we have a near endless supply of this bitumen.


If all we have left is oil sands and bitumen, we won't need as many roads, since no one will be able to afford to drive. I suspect that most roads will go "back to nature" and only the bare minumum will be kept up with hard pavement.

Turn those interstate corridors back into farmland, please. Hell, they're all flat and clear anyway. We'll need it all since transportation costs for food will be enormous. We waste so much land in the US. Though, some places here in Missouri, farmers are allowed to cut hay off the interstate medians.
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 14:15:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anthem', 'T')hough, some places here in Missouri, farmers are allowed to cut hay off the interstate medians.


You know, I always thought that was a good idea until I realized what might get baled up with the hay: shredded tires, aluminum cans and bottles, paper products, et. al. I suppose cows would just eat around the trash, but you never know...
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby SoothSayer » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 14:30:14

We'll simply defeat the fuel crisis & pothole problem by using ..

ATSUS (All Terrain Sports Utility Stilts)
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Technology will save us!
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby mekrob » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 14:36:22

LOL Soothsayer. Classic. I don't know where you get those pics.
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby Grimnir » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 15:55:34

Asphalt prices go up -> road repair costs go up -> gas taxes go up -> fewer people drive -> roads last longer

See, it all balances out. :razz:
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 16:05:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grimnir', 'A')sphalt prices go up -> road repair costs go up -> gas taxes go up -> fewer people drive -> roads last longer

See, it all balances out. :razz:


Where do the "rolling warehouses" fit into all this? :oops:
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby anthem » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 18:56:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'Y')ou know, I always thought that was a good idea until I realized what might get baled up with the hay: shredded tires, aluminum cans and bottles, paper products, et. al. I suppose cows would just eat around the trash, but you never know...


A bit, hell, waaay, off topic, but:

A cattle beast won't eat a whole bottle or a tire ply, but it might eat a flattened beer can. There is such a thing as hardware disease in cattle, which is acquired through eating things like bolts and nails. I would expect the risk for hardware disease from "median hay" would be small, though not non-existent. A real farmer who cared about his animals would check his hay as he fed it. A factory-farmer couldn't care less.

As an aside, I use "cattle beast" to describe both sexes of the animal because there really is no generic word to refer to them. A cow is always a female and males are referred to as bulls.
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby jdmartin » Fri 21 Jul 2006, 00:19:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grimnir', 'A')sphalt prices go up -> road repair costs go up -> gas taxes go up -> fewer people drive -> roads last longer

See, it all balances out. :razz:


Whoops, except for the small problem that freezing and thaw cycles tend to do the most damage to roads. Roads can be engineered to handle outrageous amounts of weight successfully, but no one's figured out a way yet to eliminate 32 degree temperatures or lower from most of the United States.

Roads in the US, however, do suffer from a lot of damage from weight because they're generally engineered cheaper than counterparts in Europe. Not unlike pretty much everything else in America. Because we've always had so much, it never made economic sense to build anything to last or conserve. This is why we have hot water heater tanks and Europeans have instant on-demand heater systems. Roads were purposely built thin because we've got so much oil, asphalt and cement that it's not a big deal to repave it every 5 years. Provides jobs, as a matter of fact.

Unfortunately, no one thought to prepare for the day when resurfacing would be every 10 years, 20 years, or never. This is epidemic everywhere in the US. In North Carolina the cost of repairing the bridges that need repair or replaced, right now, is greater than the entire budget of the DOT.
After fueling up their cars, Twyman says they bowed their heads and asked God for cheaper gas.There was no immediate answer, but he says other motorists joined in and the service station owner didn't run them off.
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby Grimnir » Fri 21 Jul 2006, 01:18:25

I wasn't being serious, by the way.
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Re: Asphalt putting holes in repair budgets, towns say

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 21 Jul 2006, 01:22:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', 'n')o one's figured out a way yet to eliminate 32 degree temperatures or lower from most of the United States.


Be patient. They're working on it.
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