[big_rc]

I am intimately familiar with the problems of fuel cell membranes (I did my graduate work on methanol fuel cell membranes). This review sounds promising although I would not get your hopes up too high because there is a huge difference between lab and real world results. Without going into gory details, there are a bunch of issues that this membrane is going to have to deal with before its a winner. Hopefully, it works out.

[small_steps]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'V')ibration doesn't effect magnets that I am aware of, and as for heat, I wouldn't expect 240 F to be a problem, a lot of magnets suffer that or worse constantly.

[miniTAX]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:06 pm Stock Chart for Ceres Power

Do you mean to tell me that Ceres Power (the company that is about to save the world) can't impress it's share holders? It's stock has fallen by more than 20% since it was first issued. This shows a lack of confidence in its ability to make a profit (which it has yet to do, btw). If Ceres Power had the ability to make cheap useful fuel cells, the wealthy/educated/informed investor would jump at the chance to own a piece of the action, right? RIGHT???

[methofuel]

There is an news item about fuel cell cars. It says,"Ballard Power Systems signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) and fuel cell supply agreement with Shanghai Fuel Cell Vehicle Powertrain Co., Ltd. to cooperate on the development of fuel cell vehicles for demonstration and field trial programs planned in China in 2006 and 2007.

"Under the terms of the agreements, Ballard will supply fuel cells and related services and Powertrain will integrate those fuel cells into vehicles.

"As a first step in the relationship, Ballard and Powertrain have signed an agreement for the supply by Ballard to Powertrain of up to 20 Mark 902 automotive fuel cells. Ballard will ship two Mark 902 automotive fuel cells to Powertrain for integration into vehicles later this year, and will provide related applications engineering and field service support. Upon successful integration of the fuel cells into vehicles, Powertrain will purchase up to an additional 18 Mark 902 fuel cells for the program in 2007. "

"The Shanghai Municipal Government recently announced funding for a program that will demonstrate 100 fuel cell vehicles on the road by the end of 2007. The 100 vehicles are the first phase of an announced program that will see 1,000 vehicles on the road by 2009-2010, and 10,000 by 2011-2012. "

The world probably be in need of millions of fuel cell cars by 2011 they these people are only talking 10,000??? why not 10,000,000 or more? what's holding them back?

There are probably hundreds of posts on this issue, would appreciate if somebody can update us on the latest findings.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('methofuel', 'T')he world probably be in need of millions of fuel cell cars by 2011 they these people are only talking 10,000???

[NeoPeasant]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('methofuel', 'T')he world probably be in need of millions of fuel cell cars by 2011 they these people are only talking 10,000??? why not 10,000,000 or more? what's holding them back?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('methofuel', ' ')The world probably be in need of millions of fuel cell cars by 2011 they these people are only talking 10,000??? why not 10,000,000 or more? what's holding them back?

[methofuel]

Thanks guys. This platinum catalyst in the PEM fuel cells could well be the main hurdle, but I vaguely remember someone mentioned about nano-catalyst. Have they tried nano-catalyst?

What about other fuel cells that dont need platinum catalyst?

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('methofuel', 'T')hanks guys. This platinum catalyst in the PEM fuel cells could well be the main hurdle, but I vaguely remember someone mentioned about nano-catalyst. Have they tried nano-catalyst?

What about other fuel cells that dont need platinum catalyst?

[methofuel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'U')nfortunatele fuel cells DO need platinum or other platinum group metals.

Massive development of this approach would produce peak platinum within decade or two.
Until new catalysts are developed (or amount of platinum used can be dropped by 2 orders of magnitude) fuel cell car is commercial no go area.

[mrflora]

pstarr wrote:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')in't nothin like a nano-catalyst, huh? Gonna save the day. ahem.

[Kingcoal]

I don't think fuel cells will ever be practical because hydrogen is so hard to store in significant quantities. Hydrogen will leak out of any sealed container. The atomic footprint is so small that everything appears to be porous. Secondly, hydrogen must be kept at very high pressure and temperatures close to zero K to remain liquid. There are ideas for hydrogen cooled power lines but this requires huge infrastructure upgrades. Decades away, and by that time, the energy to build that infrastructure will be much more expensive.

I think the "super capacitor has a better chance.

[EndOfSewers]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'M')assive development of this approach would produce peak platinum within decade or two.

[NeoPeasant]

Kunstler on cars:
As we stumble into the future of a permanent global energy crisis, an interesting delusional theme has taken shape among the public and virtually all our leaders in politics, business, and even science: the obsessive notion that it's all about keeping our cars running by other means, at all costs. This is very unfortunate because it will be a colossal act of futility.

[Drjay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'I') don't think fuel cells will ever be practical because hydrogen is so hard to store in significant quantities. Hydrogen will leak out of any sealed container. The atomic footprint is so small that everything appears to be porous.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'I') don't think fuel cells will ever be practical because hydrogen is so hard to store in significant quantities. Hydrogen will leak out of any sealed container. The atomic footprint is so small that everything appears to be porous.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')At -254*C hydrogen remains liquid at atmospheric pressure.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')At -254*C hydrogen remains liquid at atmospheric pressure.