PeakOil is You
It's the End of the World as We Know it
Re: 'The end of the world' has already begun, UW scientists
by lateStarter » Sun 02 Jul 2006, 14:33:37
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'Y')eah; if our survival depends on diplomacy, I'm gloomier than ever about our prospects.
I agree. Not to get off-topic, but can anyone provided an example of diplomacy that served to benefit the general populace from anytime in all of recorded history. If needed, we can start another thread on the proposals - because I can't think of any.... And don't even think about marching out anything regarding Churchill or Roosevelt during WWII...
We have been brought into the present condition in which we are unable neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them. - Livy
-
lateStarter - Heavy Crude
- Posts: 1058
- Joined: Wed 06 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: 38 km west of Warsaw, Poland
Re: 'The end of the world' has already begun, UW scientists
by smallpoxgirl » Sun 02 Jul 2006, 14:56:21
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', 'I') agree. Not to get off-topic, but can anyone provided an example of diplomacy that served to benefit the general populace from anytime in all of recorded history.
Well...I guess the Cuban missle crisis comes to mind. Also the SALT treaties. The nuclear weapons non-proliferation treaty. International convention on land-mines. The Kyoto accord.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
-
smallpoxgirl - Expert
- Posts: 7258
- Joined: Mon 08 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Re: 'The end of the world' has already begun, UW scientists
by Heineken » Sun 02 Jul 2006, 14:59:29
The land-mine and Kyoto initiatives mostly failed b/c the US refused to go along.
The SALT measures accomplished little, really---the world is still bristling with thousands of nukes.
The Cuban Missile Crisis diplomacy worked b/c the alternative was total nuclear annihilation. The choice was so stark and straightforward---far different from the Byzantine complexities posed by most of today's problems.
The SALT measures accomplished little, really---the world is still bristling with thousands of nukes.
The Cuban Missile Crisis diplomacy worked b/c the alternative was total nuclear annihilation. The choice was so stark and straightforward---far different from the Byzantine complexities posed by most of today's problems.
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---I & my bro.
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---I & my bro.
-
Heineken - Expert
- Posts: 7051
- Joined: Tue 14 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Rural Virginia
Re: 'The end of the world' has already begun, UW scientists
by smallpoxgirl » Mon 03 Jul 2006, 19:26:23
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'T')he land-mine and Kyoto initiatives mostly failed b/c the US refused to go along.
The SALT measures accomplished little, really---the world is still bristling with thousands of nukes.
The Cuban Missile Crisis diplomacy worked b/c the alternative was total nuclear annihilation. The choice was so stark and straightforward---far different from the Byzantine complexities posed by most of today's problems.
The SALT measures accomplished little, really---the world is still bristling with thousands of nukes.
The Cuban Missile Crisis diplomacy worked b/c the alternative was total nuclear annihilation. The choice was so stark and straightforward---far different from the Byzantine complexities posed by most of today's problems.
Certainly SALT, Kyoto, and the Land-mine intitiative could have done more. I'm not sure that saying they didn't do enough is the same as saying they didn't benefit us. I think the major problem with diplomacy is that it is all about government doing less bad things and not government doing anything good. "See aren't we great. We didn't blow up the planet today." Yeah. Ok great, but we'd have all been much better off if ya didn't build the bombs in the first place. "We reached an agreement that we're going to dump 10% less greehouse gasses into the environment per year by 2020." Gee. Swell.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
-
smallpoxgirl - Expert
- Posts: 7258
- Joined: Mon 08 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Re: 'The end of the world' has already begun, UW scientists
by Heineken » Mon 03 Jul 2006, 21:53:16
The weakness of diplomacy is that it always involves making compromises, greatly diluting the effectiveness of whatever proposals are being made.
The only thing that could save us now, of course, is immediate, radical action by a united world. Not gonna happen.
The only thing that could save us now, of course, is immediate, radical action by a united world. Not gonna happen.
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---I & my bro.
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---I & my bro.
-
Heineken - Expert
- Posts: 7051
- Joined: Tue 14 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Rural Virginia
by 0mar » Sun 09 Jul 2006, 07:04:15
Peak oil is not a permanent reset button on technology (unless there's global thermonuclear warfare) but more like a pause button. A pause button for 50 years or more maybe but just that a pause button.
There is no reason at all, given sufficient time, that we should be stuck in mideval european technology indefinately. Eventually, new sources of energy will be found (in our lifetimes is the real question). We will still have the accumulated knowledge of 200 years+ of science, the ability to read and write is not going away since literacy rates are higher now than they ever were.
If humanity doesn't extinguish itself during the peak oil crisis, I have no doubts that we will eventually reach the stars. The physics says we can. Probably not in our lifetimes or even our children's lifetimes, but yes, eventually we will.
There is no reason at all, given sufficient time, that we should be stuck in mideval european technology indefinately. Eventually, new sources of energy will be found (in our lifetimes is the real question). We will still have the accumulated knowledge of 200 years+ of science, the ability to read and write is not going away since literacy rates are higher now than they ever were.
If humanity doesn't extinguish itself during the peak oil crisis, I have no doubts that we will eventually reach the stars. The physics says we can. Probably not in our lifetimes or even our children's lifetimes, but yes, eventually we will.
Joseph Stalin
"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. "
"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. "
-
0mar - Heavy Crude
- Posts: 1499
- Joined: Tue 12 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Davis, California
by Zardoz » Sun 09 Jul 2006, 15:34:04
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '.')..I have no doubts that we will eventually reach the stars. The physics says we can...
The physics dictate just the opposite.
Einstein said that we will never get past more than a small fraction of the speed of light, so even a pointless trip to one of the "nearby" stars, which we know for certain have no habitable planets, would take hundreds of years.
If we ever discover another habitable planet, it will be thousands of years away. Any time spent thinking about interstellar travel is time wasted.
"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
-
Zardoz - Expert
- Posts: 6323
- Joined: Fri 02 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
- Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
![[smilie=icon_shaking2.gif]](https://udev.peakoil.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_shaking2.gif "icon_shaking2"){kind=icon}
