[TreadingLightly17]

It is tempting to simply blame SUV drivers for the lion share of frivolous gasoline use. Remember though that an SUV or truck that is only used sparingly could emit less pollution and consume less fuel than a Hybrid that logs 20 k miles per year. It is probably true that most SUV drivers are not willing to factor in the issues of air pollution or the hazard they pose to others who share the road when they choose their vehicle. Based on the findings presented in the book, "High and Mighty", it also appears that SUV drivers are extraordinarily naive wrt their own safety in a rollover, and the importance of being able to take evasive action to avoid an accident (i.e w/o rolling over).
At the end of the day, though, we all have areas where we could conserve more. Probably the best route is to live as car-free as possible, and if you do use a car, try to extend the life cycle of a used, 5 spd., fuel efficient car such as a Honda Civic CX/VX/HX, a Ford Aspire, a Saturn SC, or a Geo Metro. Buying a new car of any sort consumes massive amounts of resources. Given the life span of the average vehicle, and the possibility gas heading towards $8 per gallon, people may end up creatively retrofitting SUVs with smaller motors, or simply using them as local mini-buses for trips with 6-9 people.

[dhickerson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hymalaia', 'T')he problem with this concept is it handicaps people who already own gas guzzlers, bought when gas was cheap. Boo hoo, you say? Maybe. But it's better that they drive them till they wear out rather than have them all go running to buy a more "fuel efficient" car.

[dhickerson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreadingLightly17', 'A')t the end of the day, though, we all have areas where we could conserve more.

[bentstrider]

Well, as I said, I don't make many trips as it already is.
The only thing that matters to me is if the car is still going to be running when I try to start it next time.
I'd rather maintain and fix my vehicle, than have my horse die of a heart attack in the mountains.
At least you could roll a vehicle downhill.

[Freud]

Always a pleasure to see people suggesting courses of action for everyone else.
ie. I don't like SUV's..... lets get the service stations to discriminate.
I don't like meat... lets outlaw hunting.
ext..............
quite frankly, that kind of behaviour pisses me off and has me purposely driving SUV's and eating more meat just to stick it to those types.
My life is mine, yours is yours.
Get off your high horse and live yours, solely.
If the oil runs out, so be it..... I'm stuck with a lot of steel
if I die from a heart attack, it was my choice, not yours.

[mgibbons19]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') have never read anything that truely supports the "SUVs and Trucks are safer" mentality. They tip more easily, they are more likely to kill people in vehicles their drivers hit (Oh I guess safety only counts if it is YOUR safety) and in crashes with similar sized vehicles they are more prone to having their A pillars colapse in onto the occupants.

[Freud]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mgibbons19', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') have never read anything that truely supports the "SUVs and Trucks are safer" mentality. They tip more easily, they are more likely to kill people in vehicles their drivers hit (Oh I guess safety only counts if it is YOUR safety) and in crashes with similar sized vehicles they are more prone to having their A pillars colapse in onto the occupants.

[The_Virginian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')tation wagons today are much more fuel efficent, and in almost every case more space efficient, than a SUV.

[khebab]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Freud', 'A')lways a pleasure to see people suggesting courses of action for everyone else. ...
quite frankly, that kind of behaviour pisses me off and has me purposely driving SUV's and eating more meat just to stick it to those types. ...
if I die from a heart attack, it was my choice, not yours.

[dhickerson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mgibbons19', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') have never read anything that truely supports the "SUVs and Trucks are safer" mentality. They tip more easily, they are more likely to kill people in vehicles their drivers hit (Oh I guess safety only counts if it is YOUR safety) and in crashes with similar sized vehicles they are more prone to having their A pillars colapse in onto the occupants.

[Freud]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('khebab', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Freud', 'A')lways a pleasure to see people suggesting courses of action for everyone else. ...
if I die from a heart attack, it was my choice, not yours.

[larrydallas]

I don't like that line of thinking where it is the opperator and not the machine which is at fault.
The classic "guns don't kill people" motto is true but you have to factor in that a large majority of the population are complete idiots who lack basic knowledge, good judgement, responsibility, and basic humanity.
It's more or less a bunch of ego maniacs hustling to make payments and get more stuff cause in the end you win in this thing called life if you have the most stuff before you die.

The Ford Explorer scandal was a shocker to most people but not to me. The people who bought them felt safe riding high and they were like "huh" when the vehicle was prone to flip if a tire lost pressure. Narrow track, small wheelbase, and high center of gravity is formula for disaster.
These vehicles are a menace to the public safety and they also waste fuel.
There are exotic sports cars like Ferraris that get under 8 mpg but that does not do so much evil because the price acts as self exclusionary device to keep them in the hands of a few in low numbers.

The mechanism reasoning could have been used to stop the govt. from meddling in the Ford Pinto and Chevy Corvair. If someone wanted to drive a car that exploded if hit in the rear or that spun out then it was their business. Whoever happend to be in another vehicle and was hurt or killed because of the driver of the dangerous one should not be considered.
Just look at some of the best selling SUVs out there these days. Their bumpers line up with where the windows on cars are. The regulators care nothing about public safety. In some side collision all you would have would be the thin pillar between the front door glass and rear side window to protect you.

[Freud]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('larrydallas', 'I') don't like that line of thinking where it is the opperator and not the machine which is at fault. ...
Just look at some of the best selling SUVs out there these days. Their bumpers line up with where the windows on cars are. The regulators care nothing about public safety. In some side collision all you would have would be the thin pillar between the front door glass and rear side window to protect you.

[Specop_007]

I own an SUV (Ford Expedition. Even got the big engine) I can honestly say I WONT be without a SUV until gas becomes EXTREMELY expensive. It would have to be far more then the 4 or 5 dollars a gallon people are predicting for me to give it up in fact.

[highlander]

I guess I never realized by driving a Yukon I became a whore or prissie. My Yukon runs on Diesel and I make biodiesel from waste vegetable oil. Not only should they ration gas, they should not sell any to people who like to label others by what they drive.

[gg3]

To a certain extent, SUVs catch a lot of flak because they have become symbolic of the rampant sin of gluttony in the culture.

Strictly speaking, symbolisms are never precise, so the person who "operates the machine responsibly" gets lumped in with the idiot who doesn't, in a manner similar to the way responsible monogamous gay couples get tarred with the brush of media-hyped promiscuites who happen to be gay. Neither for of generalization is just, but the fact remains that sexuality is something you're born with, and burning dinosaurs for amusement is *a lifestyle choice.*

The claim that one's kids are safer in a behemoth is a red herring. First of all, it's an "ER" claim, by which I mean this: Claims based on comparison-words that end in "-er" inherently generate runaway feedback loops. You're only safER in something biggER until something even biggER comes along, at which point you have to get something biggER in order to stay safER, even though that's no more safe than you would have been if both parties were driving a vehicle of reasonable size.

So you bundle your kids into your converted Brinks armored car, and then the neighbor bundles his into the sleeper-compartment of his new Peterbilt rig, and then what do you do? Put your kids in the cab of your new cement truck, which is the safest thing on the road because it's got the added protection of sixteen tons of concrete in the drum...? Hey I hear the Army is having a surplus sale on slightly-used M1 Abrahms and Bradleys, some with bullet-marks from hostile fire...!

BTW the vast majority of SUVs never go off-road in their entire lifespans. Most SUV warranties specifically exclude damage that occurs while operating on surfaces other than public roadways, i.e. if you do take it off road, you could be voiding the warranty. And some of these behemoths are so incapable that they'll even get stuck on wet suburban lawns!

Freud: Re. "my life is mine, your life is yours." I couldn't agree more. If you want to drive for entertainment, make your own fuel and I won't complain. Re. "who said life was kind?", I'll step up to the plate on that one. I say life is kind, and I'll also say civilization is preferable to barbarianism. If you want to argue the contraries on either of those, I'm up for it.

[Freud]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'T')o a certain extent, SUVs catch a lot of flak because they have become symbolic of the rampant sin of gluttony in the culture. ... Freud: Re. "my life is mine, your life is yours." I couldn't agree more. If you want to drive for entertainment, make your own fuel and I won't complain. Re. "who said life was kind?", I'll step up to the plate on that one. I say life is kind, and I'll also say civilization is preferable to barbarianism. If you want to argue the contraries on either of those, I'm up for it.

[larrydallas]

That title sounds crazy but hear me out on this.
When the ramifications of Post Peak hit it will forever change the way the world is. The SUV will be no more and never again as all vehicles might be. I woudn't bank on hybrids either since such commotion may make it hard to get fuel at any price level. That's all speculation so I won't dwell into it.
But, since the SUV is a thing which can be experienced now and only now do you think it wise to have one for a little while to just be able to say "I owned one" to people decades from now and wow them (assuming we still survive). I always like to hear old car stories people tell about the cars they had in the 50s and 60s. One of the older guy at work had a 1958 Cadillac Deville which he showed me photos of and told stories about. Pretty fun stuff if you are into that sort of thing.

Anyway, the only SUV I have ever marginally liked was the old FJ series of the Toyota Landcruiser because it was never a mall hopper. It came with spartan appointments but did some serious off roading. After 1998 the Landcrusier was built to go to the mall and Starbucks. She lost the brute force and go anywhere theme for a fancy DOHC V8, cushy suspension, and jelly bean styling.
I would say 1997 is the best year for the newest yet somewhat traditional Landcruiser you could buy. There just happends to be one on ebay in my town: Ebay
Sure it has leather and such but the base models which it is built upon all have vynil seats, bare metal floors, and did duty in locales of Africa where a major city was hundreds of miles away.
I'd just like to see what it is like. We are headed off of the cliff anyway. Besides, my driving is down to 250 miles a month. I would still use less than a tank in 30 days on this beast.
Anyone own a Landcriuser here?

[Mac]

You loony Of course you happen to be right, it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference what you, or all the members of this board, or all the people who care about peak oil, or all the people who care about the environment, do now. So from that point of view, go ahead.

However, you might just want to hide those old memories and photos under lock and key; and be prepared to push your SUV over the cliff when the time comes. Because your children and neighbours are more likely to be resentful than impressed at your wasteful and selfish attitude. I've heard that this is already an increasingly common reaction towards SUVs in the UK, where the govt is considering punitive legislation again them. And if/when the time comes when govts are forced to control use of private vehicles, SUVs are a natural target to ban first.

[mikela]

If money is no object and you feel no burning desire to conserve energy for the good of humanity, why not? But if you are of limited means like the rest of us, I think there'll be some fire sales on slightly used SUVs when gas prices break $100/gallon. In the meantime I'd buy something sensible, like a VW TDI or a Toyota Echo.

I catch your meaning, though: if we're going over a cliff, might as well bring a bungee cord and have a little fun while we're at it. I suppose I still think sensible preparations--such as owning outright a high MPG vehicle--will put me in a better position whatever comes my way. Personally I think a better way to enjoy the party while you can is to do some world travelling, as long as it won't put you in debt...