[Marco]

I'm the first to admit that I am no expert on matters electoral. Nor do I really think a Kerry win would have changed anything policywise.

The US policy of grabbing oil/gas reserves in front of the PO wave would have remained- as would the need to enforce the p-dollar system. Ensuring US supplies in the face of growing competition would remain a priority.

Even so, the exit polls and official results don't seem the match up. official results showed a +5% discrepency to Bush only in states with electronic voting. The exit polls showed a Kerry lead.

In states with electronic voting (but with a paper trail) exit polls mirrored final results. More interesting is that all discrepencies between exit polls and official results favoured Bush.

This and the fact that the guy who owns the Diebold company promised a Republican result in Ohio make it all the more interesting.

I would not be surprised to find that the Bush cartel rigged/tampered with the results in key states. This does not include the usual voter scrubbing that goes on with minority groups. Does anyone doubt these guys are not capable of pulling of a massive fraud like this?

I think Bush needed a 'mandate' after the 2000 scandal. He needed to show the nation that most people supported his policies. I'm sorry but I dont buy the arguement that all those christians and rednecks turned out in such massive numbers to swing it his way. You dont need a terror attack to scare people your way. That already happened for a time after 9-11. the Madrid bombing (3-11) shows that people can be scared the other way too.

I suspect these guys are desperate enough to do this. They NEED another four years (at least) to fulfill their agendas. A Democrat win shoves the neocons back into the shadows and there is the added risk of a large left-Democrat push for reform within the party.

Much easier to put in a fix- and have Kerry take a fall in round 12 with no protest.

As an aside, I read a comment from a guy who claimed that Rove stated Gore actually won in 2000. Ergo Bush is eligible to stand in 2008. The comment was unsourced but it would be something this fixer would say. Incredible if true. A tacit admission of 2000 electoral theft. can anyone verify this comment?

I would love to be proved wong in my suspicions. Its far better to believe that the American people are just stupid rather than cheated. Even so, I have my suspicians about this one.

Marco

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Drifter', 'H')ey Marco.

No offense, but you had better educate yourself regarding exit polls. Exit polls are notoriously inaccurate. I hope you are not saying the Republicans 'stole' the election. Democratic lawyers were placed in almost every voting center in the US to keep watch.

[trespam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Drifter', 'H')ey Marco.

No offense, but you had better educate yourself regarding exit polls. Exit polls are notoriously inaccurate. I hope you are not saying the Republicans 'stole' the election. Democratic lawyers were placed in almost every voting center in the US to keep watch.

[Marco]

Hi Drifter,

I accept your point about exit polls being unreliable. Like I said I am no expert here.

My point was that these e-voting machines leave no trace record for later verification or recount. All your doing is recounting the same data.

Also, they are said to be fairly easy to hack/program to shift results. I believe there is evidence of this in other election contests.

All the scrutineers/observers can do is monitor against obvious problems. They cant check to make sure a vote goes where it should in these systems. Therein lies the problem. My suspicians still stand.

PS: I do accept that the Dems ran a terrible campaign and the Reps a good (if base ) one. I also accept that Kerry had less electoral appeal than Mr Potato Head.

Still, the idea that Bush doubled his vote with coloured folk because they dont like gay marriage either seems ludicrous.

Marco

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Marco', 'H')i Drifter,

I accept your point about exit polls being unreliable. Like I said I am no expert here.

My point was that these e-voting machines leave no trace record for later verification or recount. All your doing is recounting the same data.

Also, they are said to be fairly easy to hack/program to shift results. I believe there is evidence of this in other election contests.

All the scrutineers/observers can do is monitor against obvious problems. They cant check to make sure a vote goes where it should in these systems. Therein lies the problem. My suspicians still stand.

PS: I do accept that the Dems ran a terrible campaign and the Reps a good (if base ) one. I also accept that Kerry had less electoral appeal than Mr Potato Head.

Still, the idea that Bush doubled his vote with coloured folk because they dont like gay marriage either seems ludicrous.

Marco

[Laurasia]

In defence of the Spanish population who voted out Aznar immediately after the terrorist attacks in Madrid; they were not scared into voting him out of office (although the administration in DC would love to have you and me believe this), they voted him out of office to PUNISH him for getting into the Iraq war in the first place. About 90% of the population, apparently, did NOT agree with Spanish involvement. Remember the millions protesting in Barcelona and Madrid on Feb. 15, 2003?

Just wanted to put my two-cents worth in there...I basically agree with you on the rest of your post. That article about the Diebold guy came out quite a few months ago, didn't it? Long enough for lots of people to have forgotten about it (but not everyone, apparently

Regards,

L.

[Felix]

G'day,

Just wondering, why do you guys use lever machines, that punch holes in cards anyway. I know this is probably quite primitive, but we just grab a marker pen here in New Zealand and tick a box next to the candidate. It's then counted by hand I think; the results are out within hours anyway.

So, no hanging chads here.

Another reason, why are hanging chads a problem? If there is a clear mark on the ballot, does it matter if it's a hole rather than a half a hole?

I'm just curious about the subtleties of voting in your part of the world.

Cheers,

Felix
Wellington
New Zealand

[Marco]

Hi Laurasia,

I stand corrected on the motives of the Spanish population re:Aznar. The Spanish people showed a lot more sense than the people of other 'democracies'.

Blair is up next- and faced with a choice between him and the Tories- well Britain at least has minor parties that have some chances.

At least britain uses a paper system.

regards Marco

[Cool Hand Linc]

I can give a reason why the exit polls were not correct. I heard it meantioned on talk radio shows that when exiting you should tell the opposite of how you voted. The same was being done to the telephone people. Everytime I got a call. I would tell them I was voting for Kerry. I voted for Bush.

I dislike the 30 phone calls I recieved before the vote. I studied the issues and studied the voting records and made my decision.

[pepper2000]

Let me get this straight: there was a organized plan on the part of the right wing media to deceive the exit polls? Now why exactly would they do that?

[Cool Hand Linc]

Just because the lefties deserve it.

Listen to Randy Savage amoung others. I hate all the people with their telephone poles and the exit poles. I heard a caller tell him we should do this. I don't think it would be correct to say the right wing media did it.

[TheSupplyGuy]

Randy Savage has a radio show?
Anyway, I personally don't think it was rigged, but I do think our way of voting is stupid. Using a magic marker or electronic voting isn't that hard to count for crying out loud.

[khebab]

The entire US democracy is a fraud! who else has two parties or less, dictatures have one!

[big_rc]

Kerry might have won. Read this article to learn about voter "spoilage" in the 2004 US election.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1104-36.htm


You might be alot more right than you know. Check out this article to be even more depressed about the election.

[pip]

The exit polls in 2000 were way off also.

I've heard on the radio that the Dems had found out where the exit pollsters would be and had their supporters voting at the right time and locations. That skewed the exit poll numbers.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he global economy is facing a second wave of food inflation after the US agriculture department on Tuesday warned of significant falls in stocks of corn, wheat and soyabean and heavy demand.

Officials forecast US wheat stocks would shrink to their lowest level in 60 years, dropping from 312m bushels to 280m by the end of the 2007-08 crop year.

The US is the world’s biggest exporter of wheat and importing countries are bidding heavily for its crops as other exporters cut supplies.

Cold weather damaged crops in Argentina and drought affected Australia’s wheat production. Flooding also damaged European crops.

Michael Lewis, of Deutsche Bank in London, said the decline in stocks and rising shortages in large parts of Asia suggested 2008 “could deliver another year of . . . price shocks”.

Corn and soyabean stocks will also be lower than expected as demand from emerging countries rises in spite of record prices.

Greg Wagner of Horizon Ag Strategies in Chicago said supplies of soyabeans and wheat had now tightened to “very uncomfortable levels”.

[Ayame]

Also:

Global stockpiles are expected by the U.S. government to fall to 109.8 million metric tons by May 31, the lowest in 30 years.

article

It's looking dire especially since we have a far larger global population than 30 years ago.

[Denny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he global economy is facing a second wave of food inflation after the US agriculture department on Tuesday warned of significant falls in stocks of corn, wheat and soyabean and heavy demand.

Officials forecast US wheat stocks would shrink to their lowest level in 60 years, dropping from 312m bushels to 280m by the end of the 2007-08 crop year.

[Chesire]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he global economy is facing a second wave of food inflation after the US agriculture department on Tuesday warned of significant falls in stocks of corn, wheat and soyabean and heavy demand.

Officials forecast US wheat stocks would shrink to their lowest level in 60 years, dropping from 312m bushels to 280m by the end of the 2007-08 crop year.