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THE Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) Thread (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Drill in ANWR?

Poll ended at Mon 13 Sep 2004, 18:58:32

Yes, we now have the technology to do it cleanly
4
No votes
Yes, we need the oil, and nobody goes there anyway
3
No votes
Yes, it will rape the land but we need the oil
4
No votes
No, if ANWR opens up, all the national parks are at risk
1
No votes
No, this is one of the last great wildernesses
9
No votes
No, bring on peak oil
8
No votes
 
Total votes : 29

Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby Cynus » Tue 23 May 2006, 21:28:09

I'd keep ANWR set aside in case the pentagon needs the oil to fight a war some time between now and doomsday.
One of these now am I too, a fugitive from the gods and a wanderer, at the mercy of raging Strife.
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby mekrob » Tue 23 May 2006, 21:30:54

I support drilling in ANWR for any reason as long as we do it now with the appropriate 'safeguards', if not more stringent ones. Simply put, the oil will be used. We might as well drill it now while we still have reasonable 'safe' laws and provisions to protect it.
But if we are going all out with our imagination and wishful thinking, drill it extremely safely and use it solely for storage for a responsible SPR, which would subsequently augment to more than 10 billion barrels which could help us with a program to 'save' our economy in some shape while getting away from oil over the next few decades.
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby XOVERX » Tue 23 May 2006, 21:40:54

We need the oil.

Drill.
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 23 May 2006, 21:43:14

In my opinion "NO"

We'll just waste it the way we waste the oil we have now.

Pointless and stupid.
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby Grimnir » Tue 23 May 2006, 22:10:54

It would be worthwhile if the oil were put to good use. But it would be tragedy and travesty to tear up ANWR in order to keep business-as-usual going just a little longer.
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby 12amps » Tue 23 May 2006, 22:28:44

face it fellas, america is flatlining, and nothing will save her.
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby Pablo2079 » Tue 23 May 2006, 23:28:46

Unfortunately, it will be drilled sooner or later. It might as well be done with as many safeguards in place rather than sometime in the future when the environment means very little.

I have been against drilling in ANWR, but it's becoming a case for the lesser of two evils. The sooner it's depleted, the sooner we leave it alone.
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby dunewalker » Tue 23 May 2006, 23:31:22

It's an illusion to believe that ANWR has any significant role in addressing America's energy needs. As I understand it, the oil from ANWR would most likely be shipped to Japan and/or China, as that is most profitable for the oil companies due to transport costs. As such, that oil becomes part of the global pool of production, which presently is some 85 million barrels daily. Of this amount, the US consumes around 21 million barrels, or about 25% of world production. Therefore, if ANWR contributes say, 1 million barrels of oil per day, the share accruing to the US is only around 250,000 barrels, or barely more than 1% of our daily needs.
"Wilderness is another civilization apart from our own." - H.D. Thoreau
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby green_achers » Wed 24 May 2006, 01:16:40

As to the OP, someone needs to look up the definition of "fungible."
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut if we are going all out with our imagination and wishful thinking, drill it extremely safely and use it solely for storage for a responsible SPR

So, we could tear the place up, pump out all of the oil, transport it to Louisiana and pump it back into the ground? How about if we just leave it where it is?
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby seven » Wed 24 May 2006, 03:53:06

Sure, let's take a pristine, incredibly beautiful land full of majestic wildlife and turn it into a trash heap for what little oil and other resources we can suck out of it - oh, wait! We've already done that to the rest of the country. Since Bush is selling off 800,000 acres of national forest for logging, we could use the oil from ANWR to make gas for all the ski-mobiles and ATV's he wants to allow in Yellowstone National Park.

Unbelievable.
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby pea-jay » Wed 24 May 2006, 04:27:39

I'd argue later rather than sooner. Why. Do it now and your prolonging the inevitable. Wait till we start serious demand destruction (and simply not taking that summer trip is not what I am talking about). No, wait till we collectively realize that oil is on its way out and every remaining bit has real and increasing value. That way, hopefully (said with optimism) the oil is put to beneficial use, such as constructing renewable power generation units, building rail/non car transport infrastructure, plastic and chemical use, trucking and ag (until we wean those two sectors off the dino juice). Whatever is left over can fuel, public transit, government vehicles, taxis and finally personal vehicles.

I believe Buckminster Fuller (?) said that oil was the starter fuel for whatever came next. It's high time we use it that way, lest we avoid the fate predicted by the doomers, myself included.
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby bleubird » Wed 24 May 2006, 05:09:11

The big issue up here is the gas pipeline. The oil pipe will not be scraped for a long time.Even after the last barrel of oil is sent to Prince William sound. The gas line is not the best answer to PO, but it will help.Natural gas is a good source of energy.
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby mekrob » Wed 24 May 2006, 08:50:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('green_achers', 'A')s to the OP, someone needs to look up the definition of "fungible."
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut if we are going all out with our imagination and wishful thinking, drill it extremely safely and use it solely for storage for a responsible SPR

So, we could tear the place up, pump out all of the oil, transport it to Louisiana and pump it back into the ground? How about if we just leave it where it is?

Ok, so if we just leave it there and we need it, I mean NEED it, then we would have to wait years for the production to even start. And then, it would only produce a mpd. But if we pump it out now, we can have it in the SPR. Currently, we can get about 4.4 mpd at the beginning of total use from the SPR. With more oil, we could get higher amounts, if a crisis or leader (towards sustainability) were to ever emerge.
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby kam30en » Wed 24 May 2006, 08:52:32

Who cares. Its crumbs.
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby thorn » Wed 24 May 2006, 21:19:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('green_achers', 'A')s to the OP, someone needs to look up the definition of "fungible."... So, we could tear the place up, pump out all of the oil, transport it to Louisiana and pump it back into the ground? How about if we just leave it where it is?

The problem is the Trans-Alaskan pipeline will be shut down as the North Slope stops production (in the next few years) It will make it harder to move the oil via tankers. Now or never?
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby Golgo13 » Wed 24 May 2006, 21:50:13

Image
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby green_achers » Thu 25 May 2006, 01:28:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow or never?

Well, then, one vote for never.
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Re: An acceptable case for drilling in ANWR?

Unread postby thorn » Thu 25 May 2006, 15:05:31

Today Congress is voting on a resolution to allow drilling off the Coastal Plain of of AK: $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')roviding for consideration of the bill (H.R. 5429) to direct the Secretary of the Interior to establish and implement a competitive oil and gas leasing program that will result in an environmentally sound program for the exploration, development, and production of the oil and gas resources of the Coastal Plain of Alaska, and for other purposes.

What other purposes? link

to the bill: H.R.5429, American-Made Energy and Good Jobs Act
link
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Congressman Roscoe Bartlett Opposes Drilling in ANWR

Unread postby thorn » Thu 25 May 2006, 15:23:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ongressman Roscoe Bartlett Opposes Drilling in ANWR
Washington, DC - Congressman Roscoe Bartlett spoke in opposition to a bill, H.R. 5429, that would open the Antarctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) for oil drilling. A copy of his prepared remarks is below:
"In the past year, two major studies were done for the federal government, one for the Department of Energy and one by the Army Corps of Engineers.
Both said that we were at peak oil -- when the maximum oil production capacity in the world will be reached -- and that the consequences would be devastating.
America has only 2 percent of the world's known oil reserves." We produce 8 percent and consume 25 percent of the oil produced worldwide and import close to 2/3 of the oil we use.

With those statistics in mind, I am having trouble understanding how it is in our national security interest to use up our little bit of oil as quickly as we can.
If we could pump ANWR tomorrow, what would we do the day after tomorrow?
We are saddling our children and grandchildren with an unconscionable debt.
We should not deny them access to these finite energy sources.
Drilling in ANWR is not the right thing to do at this time."

HR5429]link
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