[JohnDenver]

I heard this on NPR today, and thought it would be an interesting discussion topic. A fellow named William Alexander has written a book called "The $64 Tomato" with some amusing stories about his gardening experiences.

The interesting part is that he actually sat down with his account books. He totaled the amount he spent on his garden, and calculated how much his homegrown food was costing him.

It turned out that his heirloom tomatoes were costing him $64 a piece.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')ime, finally, to do the depressing math: $1,219 divided by nineteen equals -- gulp -- $64 per tomato.

Holy cow.

This was sobering. I never realized how much growing my own food was costing me. I went to Anne with the numbers.

"You won't believe this," I said. "Remember that joke I made about the expensive tomato?"

"Uh-huh," she said, distracted, as she leafed through the New England Journal of Medicine.

"Twenty dollars turned out to be a tad low. That was a sixty-four-dollar tomato."

"Maybe that one you stuffed with crabmeat? That was good," she said, not looking up.

"You don't understand. I'm not talking dinner-menu prices. Every Brandywine tomato we picked this year literally cost us sixty-four dollars to grow."

[skeptic]

Very Silly.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')"Forsythia border (including labor) $700

Gas-powered hedge trimmer for forsythia $75"

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skeptic', 'V')ery Silly.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')"Forsythia border (including labor) $700

Gas-powered hedge trimmer for forsythia $75"

[Specop_007]

Give me a fucking break. This guy isnt even TRYING to be self sufficient or garden in a practical sense, hes just doing this as a hobby.

I would bet this is the biggest load of horseshit you could read in terms of gardening.




I started with the costs of building the garden (orchard excluded):

Garden design $300

Initial construction $8,500

Extra charge for stump pulling $300

Irrigation and drip hoses $1,100

Cedar edging $400

Electric fencing equipment (exclusive of charger) $400

Posthole digger $50

Posts for fencing $50

Two wrought iron gates and posts $400

Additional topsoil $250

Havahart trap $65

Velcro tomato wraps $5

Cedar for tomato posts $10

Steel edging $1,200

Labor for installation of edging $600

Forsythia border (including labor) $700

Gas-powered hedge trimmer for forsythia $75

Wood-chip mulch for forsythia $300

Chipper/shredder for shredding leaves for

compost $400

Dark bark mulch (fifty bags at $3 per bag) $150

Push lawn mower for lawn paths $80

Bag for lawn mower (never used) $40

Gas-powered lawn mower for garden $215

Garden books $100

Garden-magazine subscriptions $150

Peat moss and other miscellaneous soil additives $125

Removal of two trees $600

[foodnotlawns]

There are plenty of hidden costs in the supermarket food, namely the massive direct subsidies given to agribusiness, along iwth the indirect subsidies in the form of subsidized fuel.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg1763.cfm

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')owever, farm subsidies are more corporate welfare than poverty relief, so Washington instead spends $12 billion to $30 billion annually subsidizing large farms and agribusinesses that are much wealthier than the taxpayers footing the bill.

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'G')ive me a fucking break. This guy isnt even TRYING to be self sufficient or garden in a practical sense, hes just doing this as a hobby.

[Dreamtwister]

The beauty of sustainable farming is that it becomes cheaper the longer you do it.

When I started gardening, I had to buy my seeds, some topsoil, starter boxes, tools, the works.

10 years ago.

So I guess my tomatos would cost about $6.40. In 90 years when my great-grandchildren are still growing food on that same plot of land with those same tools, the cost will be around $0.64.

And that doesn't even take into account a century's worth of profits my family has earned by selling off the surplus.

Actually, it would be far less, since I didn't need to buy useless things like a gas-powered hedge trimmer or $1200 worth of steel edging. For crying out loud, he BOUGHT COMPOST. I produce enough compost in one year to supply my garden for about 2.5 years, and I don't even have animal manuer to augment it.

If I had to sit down and run the numbers, I'd guess that my "$64 tomato" costs me about $.70, and it's only been 10 years.

And NONE of this addresses the obvious benefits of not having to depend on a grocery store. no lines...no half-wit checkout girls...no exposure to "supply interruptions"... How do you put a price tag on that?

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('foodnotlawns', 'N')ow one thing I'll admit about mini-farming -- it does take up front investment

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'A')nd NONE of this addresses the obvious benefits of not having to depend on a grocery store. no lines...no half-wit checkout girls...no exposure to "supply interruptions"... How do you put a price tag on that?

[foodnotlawns]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('foodnotlawns', 'N')ow one thing I'll admit about mini-farming -- it does take up front investment

[seahorse2]

John Denver,

To be fair, food at the grocery store cost a person more than the price tag on the food. You also have to add in the cost of going to the grocery store. For most people, this would mean adding into the grocery bill the cost of lfuel, pro-rated car insurance, mileage on the car to and from etc.

JD, I find it interesting you think the world can lessen its dependence on oil yet you are attacking the idea of people supplementing their food with home grown gardens. If we are going to lessen our dependence on oil as you suggest, then we have to start doing more at home, locally, just as is done in Cuba. Small gardens, composting, etc., would have to be a part of this big equation.

And, you never answered my question in another thread, why did the US attack Iraq?

[ashurbanipal]

Cost of big new garden: $5000

Cost of not having a big garden: Starving to death

Cost of seeing JD try to argue with this point: Priceless

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('foodnotlawns', '
')And I would recommend doing a garden. That list of equipment and materials above -- even Specops list, is way more than you need. A gas powered posthole digger? I dig post holes with a shovel just fine.

[Pops]

A good question JD.

I doubt we save a whole lot aside from meat and eggs but we certainly didn’t pay $64 for each tomato of the couple dozen bushels we grew last year!

In our case the property was financed 100% by the commuter-driven real estate boom in CA – thanks folks!

Quickbooks tells me that raising calves will make up for our start-up costs and turn us a profit this, our second year - and I right off every thing I legally can. Of course that doesn’t include garden stuff and chicken/hog feed. I think we wound up paying under a dollar a pound for the two pigs and calf we raised – and that was mostly butchering, which we hope to be set up for next time around. We had to buy another freezer this year so figure $2/lb and then back to maybe $0.50 when we do our own butchering.

I'd estimate we canned 10dz pints and quarts last year And I don't know how much we froze – from corn to green beans to tomatoes to pickles. Again the biggest costs are to get set up – once you have things in place the yearly costs are small – except for pickles!

Of course, you can buy your stuff from Leamans or Garret Wade or you can go the swap meet/garage sale route. Most stuff we have is second hand – I have an old pressure cooker from my mom (though we did buy a new one last year cause we had so much to do) I bought a great Honda tiller for $100 about 5 years ago, got dozens of canning jars just for hauling them off, I have mountains of wood chips for mulch from the local electric co-op, manure from the calf barn – stuff like that.

Still, lots of stuff we don’t raise simply because I don’t have the time and as you say it just isn’t efficient raising dry beans. But we have experimented with lots of staples over the years just for the experience – I have a little patch of winter wheat right now.

Mostly we raise stuff because the varieties you can grow in your garden taste better, because I like having a full pantry and freezer and I assume because we enjoy raising and canning, freezing, etc better than trips to the mall or Disneyland.

I don’t know that we'll ever need to sustain ourselves on what we can grow but in the case that I can no longer find employment I will certainly be glad for the "hobby".

I guess learning to grow food just seems a better investment than a plasma TV and hours spent watching Judge Judy.

But that’s just me.

[jato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')ime, finally, to do the depressing math: $1,219 divided by nineteen equals -- gulp -- $64 per tomato.

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'D')reamtwister, how much food do you actually produce? It sounds like you're 100% self-sufficient, eh?

[oowolf]

Wuh, let me try to figure this out. Land: 4 acres bought in 1973 for $1400; current taxes $214/year. Labor: 2500 kCal/day provided by my own food and wild game (400 lbs Moose: cost: one .308 round; cost $.010. Rifle: Model 99 Savage: Cost: given to me by the widow of my old sawmill boss. Tools: handmade Damascus skinning/gutting knife-4" drop point; got in trade for custom cabinetwork using recycled lumber. Meat saw Disston Bros, 19th century: found at dump, Cleaver: Forschner XXXX Damascus 14": yard sale: $5. Pack frame: $15. Freezer wrap: $11, Freezer,21 sq ft used $35 Freezer power 1year est: $65.

Equipment: Yard sale, negligable. Rototiller: 5.5 horse Troy-Bilt bought new in 1999:$550, tiller gas last year: 2 gallons: $4
Clothes: Church rummage sale: $1/bag, Gloves: find along highway(I find way more gloves along the highway than any other object except beer containers.

Fencing: several 6-packs to friend who works at dump and saves fencing for me, Topsoil, manure:produce my own on site.

Yields: Filberts (400) 1200+ lbs, Tree fruit; Apple (12): 600+ lbs; Persimmon (20); 400+ lbs Pea/Fava bean 2000sqft; 200 lbs, Root vegetables (Burdock, Salsify, Parsnip, Jerusalem Artichoke,etc) 2000 sqft:2000 lbs & more. All this on approximately 2/3 acre and I gave a lot away. Original cost of trees around $1200 (the Apple trees were free). I grow my own seed when possible. I also experiment with many new plants every year, many of which don't work out. I also forage wild self-seeding plants like camas, skirret, juneberry, lamb'squarters, chokecherry, dandelion, stinging nettle, wintercress, cattail, alder (catkin) and maybe 80 more: cost: ? I call it recreation. & I get to hear birds sing and the wind in the pines and willows and the creek rushing by just feet away, see eagles hawks, frogs, deer, coyotes, wolves, beaver, muskrat, etc. I get to get up and go to bed when I feel like it. I get to drink right out of the creek with trout just inches away, then roll over and watch clouds passing by. Not a bad life if your health holds up.

[greenworm]

Just so happens that this is my favorite hobby, so I'll hit you with my costs:

greenhouse $150 (no repairs needed as of yet)
plastic for greenhouse $125 (lifetime roll)
seeds $90 (one time expenditure for obvious reasons)
total: $365
Everything else (pitchfork, etc.) came with the house and was essentially free.

I grew 500 + tomatoes(this is plants, not actual quantity of tomatoes) my first year so:

365\500= 73 cents.
over 4 years 365\2000= 18 cents.
Either way, I would pay $64 for an organic brandywine tomato or cherokee purple and the supermarket can keep it's tasteless hard skinned tomato any day!

[greenworm]

Oops! I forgot pots and organic potting soil, so here is the retabulation.

pots $200, I got trays from another farmer.
potting soil: $400 (I ran out finally after 4 years)

I will calculate total cost for 4 years:

965\2000= 48 cents

[strider3700]

I have no idea what my gardening costs me, not that much but year I pay for the land and it takes a crap load of time now and again.

The pay off came last august when there where no tomatoes in stores because of the hurricanes just as my crop was ripe. Even if they where $64 tomatoes they where the only tomatoes available.

Tasty to boot