[RdSnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', ' ') ONE WORLD, of peace and opportunity, safety and freedom for all!

[RdSnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')
Rdsnt--You're likely right, but I think even on a deeper level, the situation isn't static and the elite powers behind the scenes are also involved in civil war that may work it's way up through the democratic and republican parties. Not that either one aspires to actually be populist, but the neo-cons may finally be understood for what they are--(Hitlerian and carriers of the torch of Nazism from Europe to America) Other elite powers don't favour them. They may have allowed them to remain in power long enough to consolidate power in the electorate, hoping to benefit themselves. They've been given enough rope to hang themselves, but unfortunately, they've used the noose rather well, and now actually threaten the old old guard.

Will factions of the CIA, representing more the East Coast establishment democrats, and the old Anglo American elite win over the pro oil Nazis? We'll see. One thing is assured, it's not about freedom.

[gigacannon]

With Halliburton getting the logistics contracts, a messier war is all the more profitable. Siphon money from the US taxpayer straight to the company? A scheme worthy of Cartman himself.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NordicHero', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'b')ut the neo-cons may finally be understood for what they are--(Hitlerian and carriers of the torch of Nazism from Europe to America)

[CrudeAwakening]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', 'I')f it were me, honestly, I would be planning an attack on Iran the size of which would cause all of history to roll over in it's grave with it's mouth agape. It is about time that such a message be sent to all the little podunk dictators who want to hinder us from progressing in the only direction that we can, one world! Now and for all future time, One World! A global economy makes this happen, global citizenship, global policing, we cannot live isolated any longer. ONE WORLD, of peace and opportunity, safety and freedom for all!

[rs]

Sorry mate, you really believe the entire world is going to sit around a campfire and sing Koom By Ah ?

There's only one way humanity is headed and that is down the plughole.



$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', ' ') ONE WORLD, of peace and opportunity, safety and freedom for all!

[MyOtherID]

Latest: Ahmadinejad sends Bushler a LETTER!

[gigacannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rs', 'S')orry mate, you really believe the entire world is going to sit around a campfire and sing Koom By Ah ?

There's only one way humanity is headed and that is down the plughole.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', ' ') There is really only one direction to go and that is towards a world democracy. The big issues are just too big for any one country to handle alone. .

[Ibon]

If the US and Europe got out of the middle east and left these nations to figure out on their own how to stabilize their countries than the terrorist threat would evaporate within a decade. These countries would be so busy fighting eachother in evolving toward some sort of consensus that the focus would be off the west. Oh shit I forgot. That damn oil that everyone needs throws a wrench in this idea!

[willjones4]

According to reports, Iran has announced that it sent a letter to Bush offering "new ways" to exit the "critical current situation", letter is en route-maybe this'll slow this down a bit more...Unless its Iran saying they plan to continue but will allow UN inspections and we say no...

[rushdy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('willjones4', 'A')ccording to reports, Iran has announced that it sent a letter to Bush offering "new ways" to exit the "critical current situation", letter is en route-maybe this'll slow this down a bit more...Unless its Iran saying they plan to continue but will allow UN inspections and we say no...

[Jellric]

Bush & Co. would have to be absolute morons to attack Iran as some sort of 'October Surprise' to influence the 2006 election. An attack would send oil and thus gas prices through the roof!

Come to think of it, they'll probably do it.

[gg3]

Whether or not to trust someone else's intentions, has much to do with whether it appears they are honestly *giving* or whether they are sercretly *taking*.

Here's an example of giving:

The US Defense Department creates ARPANET and then decides to turn it over to the entire world as the Internet. In effect that was giving our First Amendment to the entire world in a way that no authoritarian regime could ever completely undo. A global victory for freedom of speech and press, without a single shot being fired.

(And for anyone who thinks that any country's government can stop it, consider the difference between the Great Firewall of China today, with its imperfect censorship, vs. the Brezhnev era in Russia where every *typewriter* was registered with the state, every *typewriter ribbon* was registered with the state, and every photocopy machine was kept in a locked room guarded by a loyal Party cadre and with a sign-in and sign-out and strict accounting for every piece of paper that went through the machine. China, Saudi, Cuba, or any other government intent on censorship, cannot possibly keep up with the Internet tidal wave.)

Iraq, pretty clearly, is an example of *taking,* by force, and so ineptly that we've left the place in ruins.

We could have helped Afghanistan rebuild as a modern country, with education and equal rights for women, and all the rest. We could have thoroughly de-Talibanized the place. We could have left Afghanistan as a shining example of how things turn out in countries that reject the jihadis and embrace modernity.

But no. Instead, *this*.

---

Worst. President. Ever.

[rs]

Yes, yesterday was one of my 'doomer' days!

I hear what you are saying and I have tried, many many times over the last 12 months to talk to people I know about these issues. They have on the whole been rational discussions but overall, nobody really wants to know. They've got families, mortgages, cars, jobs, World Cup to think about. They just dont want to think about climate change, fossil fuel depletion, Iraq, Iran. Which makes me believe, in general, people will only change once they are faced with a problem, not beforehand unless those decisions are made for them.

For example, if petrol hits £10 a gallon, folks will dust off their bicycles and ride to work. You try convincing them to do it now. Scale that up and try to get the whole world to change together and then throw into the mix, race, religion, location of natural resources, wealth and so on. Forgive me if I fail to be optimistic of the outcome!




$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gigacannon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rs', 'S')orry mate, you really believe the entire world is going to sit around a campfire and sing Koom By Ah ?

There's only one way humanity is headed and that is down the plughole.

[gigacannon]

You've got to understand that a person cannot change instantly. A person cannot learn instantly. In raw physical terms, dendrites have to grow and/or weaken in the brain. If you mention things to people about peak oil, then the idea will sit in the back of their head, but it will be awakened by everything they hear in the news about oil or war.

What I'm trying to say is that even if you won't convince anyone straight away, you can plant a seed in their head, which will grow whenever another sign of the inevitability of peak oil is observed.

When I was a little shit in secondary school (high school, for the yanks) I would often have very nasty arguments with my Christian friend, pointing out the holes in his religion. Of course, he wouldn't listen. He went away to university, and now he's not a Christian any more. Granted, doing philosophy may have contributed, but there are plenty of priests and vicars out there who have studied philosophy, so I'm inclined to think that the seed of doubt I sowed grew as the years passed.

If you think about how quickly culture can change and how fast fads can spread, you can easily see that over one or two days, people are barely different, but over one or two years people can change radically. So don't give up hope; if peak oil doesn't arrive for two or three years, people will have enough time to learn to expect it.