[Dan998]

Here are 2 links about this. Do people think this is legit or another false technology.

http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory ... review.htm

http://peswiki.com/energy/Main_Page

[seldom_seen]

The US patent office stopped accepting applications for perpetual motion machines like way back in the 1930s or 40s. You might want to brush up on the laws of thermodynamics if you're not already familiar with them.

Also the phrase "free energy" is an oxymoron, kind of like "free trade." There is no free energy or free trade...

[Lighthouse]

I read about the system, and fell off my chair when I learned, that in "stage 4" it will defy gravity and the car will fly ... All of that of course proven by a car which became weightless in Australia while using this device. (Or maybe the car in "down under" just fell of the earth )

[shakespear1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'You might want to brush up on the laws of thermodynamics')

Speaking of thermodynamics. About 5 or perhaps more years ago there was someone in Poland that developed a new bumper system for cars. The device was supposedly "breaking" thermodynamic laws. Some US auto company was interested but I have no idea how this in the end turned out. Has anyone heard of this?

[coyote]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')oe Cell Truck Builder Threatened, Destroys Plans... After announcing that he had successfully built a truck that runs on Joe Cell technology, drawing energy from water and Orgone, Bill Williams said he was approached by two men who requested that he stop his research, threatening him with dire consequences if he didn't. Others are keeping it alive

[aflatoxin]

I've always enjoyed the "live" presentation of these free energy ideas. It reminds me of an earlier age, snake oil, tar and feathers, and getting ridden out of town on a rail.

I've been to several energy demonstrations, supposedly showing off suppressed, new, or undiscovered technology.

One standout was the guy with the reverse heat-pump powered motor. His claim was that the govenrment outlawed Freon to put him out of the market.

The UFO propulsion system/ antigravity device was pretty rich too.

This link is pretty old. It is still pretty relevant

Common properties of quack theories

[shakespear1]

Looking for one thing I stumbled on this

Warning

[shakespear1]

Toward the bottom of the page there are links to other articles. Those are worth reading also. Rather interesting character this "Editor".

[shakespear1]

Sorry all these post but I thought someone might be interested how I got to this as the information is very recent.

Here is where the adventure starts

Pure Energy site

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'April 27, 2006

* Top 100: Joe Cell >
How to Make and Run a Joe Cell - Interview of Peter Stevens by Adrian Mutimer, to further pin down the process of how to build, prime/charge, and then run a car on a Joe cell.
')

[whereagles]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'A')lso the phrase "free energy" is an oxymoron, kind of like "free trade." There is no free energy or free trade...

[Lighthouse]

Is this device not using moron energy? You know the one you find plenty in the white house.

Remember the guys with canned sunshine?

[bartholland]

Well I was wondering the same about all those movies and sites out there claiming that cars could run on plain water by on-board electrolis and such.

motor bike on water

stanley meyer

So these guys are plain con artists or are they on to something like Tesla had discovered:


tesla


I know we have the laws of thermodynamica but I also know we have energy all around us.
What if they found a way to tap energy from the atmosphere somehow?

Or am I being too open minded here?

[big_rc]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bartholland', 'W')ell I was wondering the same about all those movies and sites out there claiming that cars could run on plain water by on-board electrolis and such.

motor bike on water

stanley meyer

So these guys are plain con artists or are they on to something like Tesla had discovered:


tesla


I know we have the laws of thermodynamica but I also know we have energy all around us.
What if they found a way to tap energy from the atmosphere somehow?

Or am I being too open minded here?

[bartholland]

Then were is this obscene profit coming from?

If this application is a 100 dollar device tapping into the atmosphere(yeah I know it sounds silly, but just for arguments sake), then I can see the biggest industry on earth (petro-indusrty) evaporate whilst the inventor wil get some money from his patents if he has patented it.

I know I would be pretty paranoia when I would stumble onto something like this.

And who says the inventor is holding back his invention? He's publicing this on the internet right?

[NonToxic]

More on this Joe cell stuff.

Check out the video....http://www.thelastfourbooks.com/Joe_Cell/

[Caoimhan]

There are a lot of people out there who have a vested interest in the status-quo on energy production.

I personally believe that Tesla, Moray, Gray, and Baumann all found ways of tapping into the same energetic field.

It doesn't violate the laws of thermodynamics.

Let me give you a couple analogies...

Analogy 1: Your car is a perpetual motion machine... did you know that? Yup... that engine will keep on running, with no more than a lead acid battery and an electric starter/alternator to keep it going. Don't laugh! I have seen it myself! You see, it taps this greater energy source called "gasoline". So long as I keep the tank full of gasoline, the engine runs.

Analogy 2: You have a battery, some wire, some metal you can have machined in any way you'd like, some lubricant, and a river. You've never heard of permanent magnets, and you have none accessible to you. Can you build a power generator from that? Of course! You make a generator from electromagnets that are "primed" by the battery. Using a little power from the battery to magnetize the electromagnets, you generate some flux, and open the valve to start the flow of water through your turbine. Rotor rotates through the flux and generates power. Some of the power is fed back through to keep the flux going, while the rest powers your lights, heaters, etc...

In both cases, some energy in the form of a DC current is invested in order to tap another completely different energy source. With gasoline, it's chemical energy. With the river, it's kinetic energy in the water. So long as the gasoline and water continue to be supplied, it's "perpetual".

What Tesla, et al.. have discovered is that there is a "field" out there that has yet to be properly described by the mathematicians and theoretical physicists in any great detail. Tesla happened upon this energetic field by accident while pursuing other goals, and became intrigued by it, but never was able to formulate a coherent theory on it... though he had hypotheses about it.

What if he had developed a 25% efficient PV cell before Einstein wrote his paper explaining the effect? (For which Einstein won a Nobel Prize). Would people scoff at the invention?

I don't think Tesla was an idiot. I don't think he was a scam artist. I think he spent much of his life dedicated to experimenting with "radiant energy". People mistakenly believe he was working with high frequency A/C, but his patents show he was using DC generators for things like his "Magnifying Transmitter".

So I keep an open mind about alternative energy.

Remember, there was a time when people said that heavier-than-air flight was impossible. There were a lot of failures, but then there were the Wright Brothers.

[Dan998]

What are people's opinion of this technology.

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/News ... 34,00.html

SA Car runs on water by John Oxley

15/10/2004
A South African inventor claims to have developed a device that allows an ordinary car or truck engine to run on water - with no air pollution. And it's relatively cheap!

BMW's expensive 7 Series hydrogen car carries hydrogen gas on board and requires special hydrogen filling stations

What's more it cuts servicing costs because the car's oil is not as easily contaminated as it is on a petrol-engined car.

Developed by Nelspruit research and development company Ku-Shan Technologies, the device uses electricity from the car's battery to turn water into a gas known as hydroxy, or Brown's Gas.

This gas is then re-aligned using Ku-Shan's process - patents have been applied for - to make it suitable for use in an ordinary petrol engine.

"It's not that the technology is new - it's how it's done," Ku-Shan CEO Danie de Beer told me.

Outside the box

"There are other people working on this at the moment. Sasol (the South African oil-from-coal giant) has been trying for four years to get it right. But it all depends on the way you are thinking.

"We think outside the box, and we have come up with the solution in 2 1/2 months."

De Beer said the main problems to date had been that it took more energy to produce the gas than could be got out of it.

"In the beginning we had the same problem," he said.

"Then we got to where we are now, where we get a lot more out than we put in.

"The amount of electricity consumed is no more than required to run one of the car's headlamps, but we can run a big Pontiac V8 fitted into a Volkswagen Kombi.

More power

"With this conversion the engine runs cooler and you have about a 5% performance increase.

"The oil stays cleaner for longer and there are no more harmful emissions, the only thing coming out of the exhaust is steam and oxygen."

He said he came up with the idea from a movie about a man who invented a hydrogen engine that could run on water.

"I did my homework on the unit used in the space shuttle - it's not high volume, but it's efficient", he said.

Apart from its low cost - De Beer expects his 22x12x12 cm device to cost between R5 000 and R7 000 - the device is much safer than current hydrogen-car technology, which requires large amounts of explosive hydrogen gas to be carried inside the vehicle, as well as a network of hydrogen filling stations.

No explosion risk

"We are generating the gas as we are using it, so there's only about a litre of gas in the system at any time, not enough to do any damage if it explodes," he said.

He said there was only one drawback at the moment, but this could be easily addressed.

When hydroxy is held under compression, without being ignited, it reverts back into water - and this small amount of water can cause rust inside the engine if it stands for a long period.

"The car needs to be in daily use because of the water aspect," he said.

However, special coatings, similar to those used on dragster cars adapted to run on nitrous oxide, could be applied to the engine to prevent rust build-up.

"It's not a serious problem," he said.

De Beer said he was currently looking for investors to take the device to market.

[Doly]

The car needs hydrogen to run. You need electricity to obtain hydrogen from water. Where is that electricity going to come from?

[sch_peakoiler]

So what is the final stance of the forum on the Joe Cells? Or is it more like some do believe and some do not? My question is, does anybody know a good physicist, who could check this up for us? I do not mean scoff off directly, but really and seriously check the thing from the point of view of the traditional science. If this is a scam or bullshit, then there will be mistakes in the description which could be proven erroneous. So far I have not seen any solid analysis on that. Actually, this is some vicious circle. There can be no solid analysis, because the claim is unsolid. So all the serious guys call it scam apriori. This is why even if some working technology would be invented, it would be apriori called scam forever.

With no special reference to a Joe Cell I want to say something which applies to all those techs. People say to the inventor : Go and build a working prototype, then we believe. This is perfectly true and correct, but what if a working prototype cannot be build in a rusty garage? does somebody remember Manhattan project? has somebody asked Einstein or Rutherford to first build a garage A-bomb to persuade them that theory works? Obviously, no. My question is the following. Has the modern science cut its own way to ever invent something revolutionary new? I mean, not only do mainstream scientists not help those wannabe inventors, but they actually destroy them by claiming them con-artists, and putting their signature under it. If an unknown inventor works on such an invention, the thing that would help him least would be a claim of some serious professor at MIT that this guy is a con-artist. After this no investor will ever come to him.
If we look at the modern science we will see evolution. We will not see revolution. 3 Ghz instead of 2, 1 Gigabyte RAM instead of 512 MB... Is this revolution? The last revolutions were - nuclear reactions, lasers, electromagnetic waves, RT... Since then, no revolutions at all.
Internet?? Uses old electromagnetic waves.....
Computers??? - old Semiconductors, new paper wrap...
Cell Phones?? - Electromagnetic waves
Cars??? - dont make me laugh, the cars run on the same engine since 100 years!
Nuclear power generation???? is the most ridiculous thing I ever saw... I think martians would laugh themselves to death (is this the reason they died off) if they saw it. Just think of it - most complicated theory, atomic reactions and things.... and what in the end??? Correct, heat up water, get some steam, rotate the wheel. Just like hundred years ago in a steam engine:) is this a revolution?

Light bulb? Since 100 years we generate light by doing what? Correct, by heating a piece of metal red hot! Damn advanced technology if you ask me.

Gen research a revolution?? Hardly, nothing interesting, this was an evolutional development resulting from the fact that scientists were able to work with smaller and smaller entities. This had to happen, it was normal.

The post has become lengthy, and I would like to sum it up.

Our science, and our society (which is a projection of science), denies revolutions. It will not help a revolution to happen. If some inventor makes it in his garage - so be it, but no scientist with name and fame will ever work on anything new and revolutional. The old things in new paper wraps - that is the thing we can do best. Just read the comments on that Joe Cell post... Everybody laughing, nobody reading:(

No really, please rethink!!!
We still fly with the same tech as 50 years ago (jet)
Our ships work with the same tech as 100 years ago.
Cars - already told.
Power plants - the same as 150 years ago (steam)

This attitude towards the new things is not the best one to overcome PO.

[Speed]

No question there are many, many Joe Cells out. Some are called perpetual motion machines or orgone boxes or make-up-a-name. And they have been around all the way back to the dark days of Alchemy. But they are interesting to consider because they represent the mass mind's (the public) overriding need to rely on mythic structure when it is confronted by the great powers that influence and control our destinies. Two of these great powers are named Jesus and Mohammed. And one of these major powers is energy. The industrial revolution that founded our modern society began in earnest when a cheap, mobile, high density energy (oil) was commercialized worldwide. Now this great power is being seriously questioned and challenged by you folks. Our future does not look so easy and fun anymore. And there are some scary things - global warming and energy wars - out there too. So we find these poor old retreaded free power myths being pulled out of storage again and again to calm our collective nerves.

Now don't get me wrong here; I am not questioning that there is free energy out there. Or the fact that there is more than enough to replace all of today's fossil fuel consumption and that necessary for the forseeable future. It's called renewable energy. But its very expensive, is not politically connected and will require many years to implement. Sorry, there is no easy answer out there.