[MyOtherID]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dub_scratch', 'R')esource wars over oil is PO doomer hype.

[bartholland]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')f course, you could say that the U.S. is already fighting a resource war in Iraq

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlinkBlink', 'B')ecause it is cheaper to buy it.

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlinkBlink', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlinkBlink', 'B')ecause it is cheaper to buy it.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'S')o here's my question. If stealing other countries resources is such a good idea, why isn't everybody doing it right now? Britain seems to be strapped for natural gas these days, so why don't they just invade Qatar? Why doesn't the U.S. just invade Mexico and Canada and steal their oil? Why doesn't Germany take over Angola or Sudan? Why doesn't Israel take over Iraq? Why doesn't Japan seize Indonesia? Surely it's more in line with the known facts of human nature to just kill the people and take their resources. That's what people always do.

[Rufoman]

It's got a lot to do with logistics, to invade a country and steal it's resources you need to have boats, planes trucks and armoured behicles, these all take money to run, arm, and keep supplied.
Also you have to keep your soldiers fed, colthed and supplied with ammo and water, this also costs money.
It's also likely you'll have to spend money on resources and labour to set up installations and bases in the country you're invading.
Basically the cost won't go away untill you've left, it's a lot easier just to pay your 70$ oil than to spend trillions invading and keeping a country down while you steal its resources.

[seahorse]

JD,

War is an extension of politics - or so says Clausewitz.

Your initial posts makes no sense to me. You begin by agreeing that historically, societies have fought over resources, but then go on to say its not happening now. If oil is not important, then why did Carter declare Mid East oil a national security interest of the United States? Why was the Shah imposed by the western gov'ts?

Specifically, you say the US is not in Iraq for the oil, then tell us why they are there in not for the oil? However, there is ample evidence the US is in Iraq for the oil - First, Carter Doctrine which declared Middle East oil a strategic interest of the United States. The Carter Doctrine was reiterated by the Cheney energy task force plan, I'm too tired right now to recall the name of the plan. Regarding the last 2003 invasion, the only gov't buildings secured by US forces were the oil ministry buildings. Second, the only FOI documents released in the FOI suit filed against VP Cheney were documents showing locations of Iraqi oilfields etc.

Why isn't Britain attacking Qatar for the natural gas right now? Keep in mind this is the first year the UK has been hit with a gas crisis. Let's see what happens when really hard choices have to be made. War is an extension of politics, so if the UK or the EU in general runs low on gas and they can't secure it politically, then, military force may not be far off. If the Russians turn off the gas taps again, things may be different. To this day, the Japanese claim they attacked the US in WWII bc we were threatening their access to oil, so, why would things be different today?

[Carlhole]

Below is an excerpt from an article by historian Carolyn Baker in which she compares two recently published books. Sorry no link:

SHALLOW HISTORY vs. DEEP POLITICS AND THE COLLAPSE OF EMPIRE

by
Carolyn Baker, Ph.D.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Baker', 'S')o while small portions of American Theocracy appear vacuous, Phillips’ ability to connect the dots between Peak Oil and global economic collapse, and the utility of apocalyptic religion to those invested in disguising and profiting from both is remarkable—especially for someone who has for decades identified himself as a Conservative Republican. He holds no illusions that the United States is on a suicide trajectory, cruising for collapse, and ties together his three major concerns in the book by concluding that “The potential interaction between the end-times electorate, inept pursuit of Persian Gulf oil, Washington’s multiple deceptions, and the credit and financial crisis that could follow a substantial liquidation by foreign holders of U.S. bonds is the stuff of nightmares.”5

As the jacket of American Theocracy states:

The Bush coalition has resulted in a dearth of candor and serious strategy—a paralysis of policy and a government unable to govern. If left unchecked, the same forces will bring a preacher-ridden, debt-bloated, energy-crippled America to its knees.

What Phillips does not address is the criminal empire that the United States has become by way of the symbiosis between government and fraudulent financial systems. For this we must be informed by the in-depth research found in Crossing The Rubicon and the recent six-part series by Catherine Austin Fitts on Dillon Read And The Aristocracy Of Prison Profits.

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'Y')ou are kidding right. What is the history of mankind, but battles for resource aquisition? Why did the Germans march on Siberia and get stalled in the 900-day seige of Stalingrad?

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rufoman', 'I')t's got a lot to do with logistics, to invade a country and steal it's resources you need to have boats, planes trucks and armoured behicles, these all take money to run, arm, and keep supplied.
Also you have to keep your soldiers fed, colthed and supplied with ammo and water, this also costs money.
It's also likely you'll have to spend money on resources and labour to set up installations and bases in the country you're invading.
Basically the cost won't go away untill you've left, it's a lot easier just to pay your 70$ oil than to spend trillions invading and keeping a country down while you steal its resources.

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse', 'J')D,

War is an extension of politics - or so says Clausewitz.

Your initial posts makes no sense to me. You begin by agreeing that historically, societies have fought over resources, but then go on to say its not happening now.

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'S')o here's my question. If stealing other countries resources is such a good idea, why isn't everybody doing it right now? Britain seems to be strapped for natural gas these days, so why don't they just invade Qatar? Why doesn't the U.S. just invade Mexico and Canada and steal their oil? Why doesn't Germany take over Angola or Sudan? Why doesn't Israel take over Iraq? Why doesn't Japan seize Indonesia? Surely it's more in line with the known facts of human nature to just kill the people and take their resources. That's what people always do.

[Nike62]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', '
')The idea, basically, is a Darwinian struggle for survival, where the strong overpower the weak and seize their booty. It's all about theft.

So here's my question. If stealing other countries resources is such a good idea, why isn't everybody doing it right now?

[seahorse]

JD,

You haven't answered my question, why is the US in Iraq? Dont' give me the "democracy" angle. If America supported democracy they would support it in Ubekistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, etc. America doesn't support democracy, it supports access to oil, always has, always will. If you haven't read Michael Klares "Blood and Oil" its worth the read.

Now, you say the US is not getting the Iraqi oil, but that is a false statement. The US has an $8billion trading deal with the "Iraqi gov't" (I use that term loosley, Its more like or has been more of a puppet gov't). The only thing the Iraqis have to trade is oil. So, the $8 billion trade with the US has got to be the oil that the Iraqis are producing. This assumption is further supported by the fact that its not publicized where is all the Iraqi oil going and further by the fact that Iraqi oil production is not counted on OPEC production numbers. I think its safe to argue the American Middle East military machine is getting its oil and refined product via Iraqi production.

However, the US can wage a war for oil, and is in my opinion waging a way for oil, without trying to take the Iraqi oil for themselves. I referred to the Carter doctrine and Cheney's energy policy to show why the US is in the ME militarily (really since WWII). The ME is a security interest of the US bc of the oil, period. Without the oil, the US would care as much about Iraq or the ME as it does Rwanda - which is zero.

It makes no sense to me that you continue to say where's the proof the US is waging a resource war, when the US is over there right now using military force to secure the Wests' access and complete domination of the world's largest oil region, and has been doing so since WWII. Go ask any Muslim in the Middle East why the US is in Iraq and ask why the US is in Iraq.

[Peak_Plus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'J')D. These silly little academic exercises might entertain your coterie of syncophants over at Debunkville but they don't hold water here. Sorry :-D

[pigleg]

Countries aren't stealing each other's resources yet, I think, because you have to avoid looking like a Hitler and getting the rest of the world on your back for being a meanie. Not that the US has avoided that, since the case for the Iraq invasion was wafer-thin. They wouldn't want to attack Canada or Mexico because we're within walking distance of The Homeland, and we're quite compliant anyway. Plus they can't risk mangling any more of the oil supply now that they've screwed up Iraq.
So, if you want to take a country's stuff, you need to cook up some story how you're actually 'helping' them. Ha. Maybe some country will dump a huge army into Nigeria to help them with their oil security.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'S')o here's my question. If stealing other countries resources is such a good idea, why isn't everybody doing it right now? Britain seems to be strapped for natural gas these days, so why don't they just invade Qatar? Why doesn't the U.S. just invade Mexico and Canada and steal their oil? Why doesn't Germany take over Angola or Sudan? Why doesn't Israel take over Iraq? Why doesn't Japan seize Indonesia? Surely it's more in line with the known facts of human nature to just kill the people and take their resources. That's what people always do.

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')o war is fought for resources.