[Pops]

As I understand them, each group’s elders decide which “outside” device or resource can be allowed into the community – the main goal is to be independent of the outside.

As such, their main goal is to hold to the old ways as much as possible while maintaining viability. The pressures on the elders to keep young folks in the fold and still stick to the “plain” ways must be tough.

I have talked to one neighbor Backstop, regarding raising sorghum to be distilled into alcohol for fuel and he seemed very interested but I can be sure that whatever they experiment with they would pretty well keep to themselves.

I’ll disagree with pstarr a little regarding the shifting of resource around the farm. My neighbor to the windward side has a pretty pasture – maintained with mined lime and turkey litter from one of the Tyson-clone ranches. He sometimes hays that field with a horse-drawn gas-powered bailer – very picturesque as he stands driving the big pair of Percherons(sp?) in front of the bailer. In other words, he is importing nutrients from the oil-powered English (using a diesel spreader to do it) and feeds it to his “sustainable” horse-powered motor pool.

Again, they are extremely frugal and hard working people and I don’t mean to imply different. But the simple fact is they will experience a very hard transition just like the rest of us – if you want to model yourself after your ideal of them don’t forget the reality of them – work hard.

[killJOY]

Amish seem to combine the best of both worlds at times. I've observed them in Ohio, with admiration. "Appropriate technology" comes to mind.


Too bad their belief system is insane.

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', 'T')oo bad their belief system is insane.

[deafskeptic]

Sometimes I wish my mother's Mennonite ancestors in Luray, Va hadn't converted to the Baptist Church ages ago.

I don't think we need to convert to their beliefs but I do think we need to build a community, work on self help and helping each other and stuff like that. Survivalism isn't going to work in the long run given it's individualistic bent.

However, as my mother - who grew up on a farm - has always reminded me more times than I care to remember, farm work is very hard work. It won't be a walk in the park.

(This said by someone who is pretty individualistic herself!)

[cynthia]

This subject is dear to my heart. I'll have to search out the original posts that I've not read.
I was raised in a Mennonite home. My parent's became a part of a modern church while my maternal grandparents worshiped in the old ways avoiding TV (until they left their farm), dressing simply and working very hard on their 80 acres. (My paternal grandparent's also Mennonites were more modern).
I appreciate the knowledge and skills my grandparents and parents passed on to me: Strong work ethic, gardening, cooking, food preservation and sewing skills.
While I consider myself spiritual, it's not God-centered. I miss the sense of community the Mennonites cultivate and I admire their contribution to those less fortunate. Although well meaning like most missionary types, they might not always act in the best interests of the cultures they visit. They perform amazing work in home-building and disaster support in the US.
I visited an Amish home in Pennsylvania when I was ten years old. It left a big impression. I remember the soap making room and that this household owned a car-which was considered very modern in the late sixties.
Lastly, I am grateful for my pacifist beliefs-born out of my upbringing. I recommend the Mennonite Faith to those seeking god-centered spiritual community. And you'll learn some helpful skills too.

[zberry]

I listened to an interview on globalpublicmedia.com with a guy who lived among Amish in 1990s. Most interesting thing was that the community was the health insurance system. A child in the community required a $100,000 surgery and the people in the community raised the money. For those of us with family/children hoping to escape suburbia, health care is a big concern. Even if you can lead a simple low-cost life, what if your kids get sick?

[satjeet]

and don't forget the Shakers - creative, held goods in common, and DID NOT REPRODUCE

[smallpoxgirl]

I read this book last fall. IMHO it is very good. It pretty much convinced me. If I was a Christian, I would probably try to join the Amish. If nothing else, the idea of living in an intact human society is incredibly appealing. As for all the eclectic beliefs, I think that is almost a necessary feature of any group that manages to maintain a unique identity in this world. Indigenous societies are loaded with eclectic beliefs.

[frankthetank]

Isn't it true that they don't pay taxes(Amish)?

What about their gene pool? Around 5 years ago the big story on local radio was how the Menonites were paying men to have sex with the women. I thought i remember hearing that the elders would watch to make sure everything was going ok. Also heard this happens out in S. Dakota?????

[cynthia]

What makes an Amish woman happy?
Two Mennonite

Taken from Garison Keilor's joke show.
cynthia

[cynthia]

Not to be petty or picayune- Mennonite is spelled with two nn's
cynthia

[bart]

I share the respect many of you have for the Amish and the Mennonites.

Two of my favorite books are by Mennonite Doris Janzen Longacre:
Living More With Less
and
More with Less Cookbook

I was struck by her sincerity and lack of pretense.

My family is Quaker, another one of the Peace (pacifist) Churches. Like cynthia, I have many good memories of the Quakers I knew.

BTW, in answer to TheTurtle, the pacifism of Amish/Mennonites was forged amidst fierce persecution in Europe, including death and torture. Pacifism is much more powerful and resilient than you might think.

[Daculling]

I've been waiting for a thread to post this link.

Now tell me... would your insurance company rebuild your house in one day? Of course if your neighbor's barn blows down you have to give a day of work but I think that's a small price to pay for peace of mind that you will never be homeless.

[backstop]

Daculling -

many thanks for the link to the report of just what real community can achieve.

It's a classic and should I think be read by all those considering embarking on a rural way of life.

The development of that sense of community within an urban framework is patently that much harder, given the stresses of grasping anti-social behaviour,
but it is surely no less critical to establishing a durable way of life.

regards,

Backstop

[TorrKing]

There is one problem such cults doesn't solve: The issue of population growth. To my knowledge amish people have tons of kids and because of that their culture is not sustainable in the long run.

Eitherway, my perfect culture would rather be that of some australian aboriginies. They banned technological progress. That ensured that their population would never grow into destructive levels.

Though it is a hard truth to swallow, we have to accept that children die as all other animals have to, if we are not to destroy the land we live off. Contraception could work, but natural contraceptions are either potentially dangerous (plants) or unpopular (intestines, doubt that there would be much feeling through it). Breastfeeding the kids longer also work, but it is in no way bullet proof so it is very likely that you will end up with at least 5 or 6 kids during a woman's productive years.

Many christian cultures deal with sexuality as if it is just to quit (the famous abstainance); like smoking. I don't know what the amish do, but that is definately NOT the way to go.

Most past cultures glorified war and warriors. War can be very much population controlling. Ergo; the juda-christian culture and it's relativly pacifistic culture is all to blame for this mess we are in.

Christianity is easy to believe, because it, just like politicians, promises things that remove us from the hardships of the real world. But in the long run neither can keep what they promise.

Torjus Gaaren

[gego]

This is an example of the broken clock which is correct for an instant twice a day.

It is absurd to think that some groups that based their existence on some arbritary b.s. interpretation of some religious document are to be held up as an example of getting it right.

Anyway, I see plenty of Menonites riding in cars and using products delivered in trucks. They will use a gas refrigerator but not an electric one. I see they working for non Menonites, being paid out of the wealth created in the modern economy. The ones that use horses and wagons ride them on oil based roadways. Without the ancillary benefits they receive from the way the rest of the USA lives, their survival would be questionable.

This is just as absurd as you socialists numnuts holding up Cuba as a success story.

[eric_b]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('satjeet', 'a')nd don't forget the Shakers - creative, held goods in common, and DID NOT REPRODUCE

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', ' ')Pacifism is much more powerful and resilient than you might think.