[MicroHydro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'I')f 50 million plus people hit the streets, the US regime would fold overnight like East Germany did.

[Doly]

The quotes on the site "They thought they were free" are chilling. Especially if you do the little exercise of changing Nazi for neocon, German for American, and put the dates so they are in the 21st century. See what the best bits would look like:

One had no time to think. There was so much going on.

Neocons gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about - we were decent people - and kept us so busy with continuous changes and "crises" and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the "national enemies", without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us.

Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, "regretted," that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these "little measures" that no "patriotic American" could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow.

You don't want to act, or even to talk, alone; you don't want to "go out of your way to make trouble." Why not? - Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, everyone is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none.

In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to you colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, "It's not so bad" or "You're seeing things" or "You're an alarmist".

But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and the smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked – if, let us say, the gassing of the Muslims in 2013 had come immediately after the "Support our troops" stickers on the windows of non-Muslim shops in 2003. (Note: the stickers mentioned in the original text said "German firm". Hardly anything one would complain about, right?) But of course this isn't the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.

And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying "Muslim swine," collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in – your nation, your people – is not the world you were in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed.

P. N. spoke for the thousands and thousands of men like me when he spoke (too modestly of himself) and said that, when the neocons attacked the communists, he was a little uneasy, but, after all, he was not a communist, and so he did nothing: and then they attacked the socialists, and he was a little uneasier, but, still, he was not a socialist, and he did nothing; and then the schools, the press, the Muslims, and so on, and he was always uneasier, but still he did nothing. And then they attacked science, and he was a scientist, and he did something - but then it was too late. (In the original text, the last straw is the Church, but that isn't going to happen with neocons, is it? The rest I left as they were, just changing Jews for Muslims.)

You have gone almost all the way yourself. Life is a continuing process, a flow, not a succession of acts and events at all. It has flowed to a new level, carrying you with it, without any effort on your part. On this new level you live, you have been living more comfortably every day, with new morals, new principles. You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things that your father, even in America, could not have imagined.

Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven't done ( for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.

What then? You must then shoot yourself. A few did. Or "adjust" your principles. Many tried, and some, I suppose, succeeded; not I, however. Or learn to live the rest of your life with your shame. This last is the nearest there is, under the circumstances, to heroism: shame. Many Americans became this poor kind of hero, many more, I think, than the world knows or cares to know

Once the war began, resistance, protest, criticism, complaint, all carried with them a multiplied likelihood of the greatest punishment. Mere lack of enthusiasm, or failure to show it in public, was "defeatism."

Once the war began, the government could do anything "necessary" to win it; so it was with the "final solution" of the Muslim problem, which the neocons always talked about but never dared undertake, not even the neocons, until war and its "necessities" gave them the knowledge that they could get away with it. The people abroad who thought that war against Bush would help the Muslims were wrong. And the people in America who, once the war had begun, still thought of complaining, protesting, resisting, were betting on America losing the war. It was a long bet. Not many made it.

[seahorse]

Microhydro, You referenced "endgame" in relation to Halliburton. Do you have a link?

[shortonoil]

Perhaps Doly but perhaps not. My father used to say “sprits are real, but they have no more power than what you give them”. The neo-con horror that is building around us is real, but it has no more power than what we give it. These masters of deception that seem to be prevailing in our world gain their power from our delusions. Delusions are transient and ephemeral. We have slipped into a fear filled world of dreams, but as it becomes a world of monsters and vulnerability, we will awake. Millennium of culture and tradition can not simply be sweep away by some cheap trick or slight of hand.

[TITAN]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', '[')b]pstarr said:I seriously doubt that our esteemed leader, Heiligenschein Bush was responsible for the WTC murders. The man is an alcohol soaked Toady that probably doesn’t have the necessary organizational skills to manage a Twinky eating contest. Without Rove and Chenney to administer his daily activities he would probably pee on his own feet. The WTC demolition was a huge and complex operation that was probably years in the making. It required advanced logistics and many other skills that one would only expect to find in a sophisticated military or intelligence environment. Placing thousands of cutter charges into the building’s superstructure, shutting down the most advanced interior air defense command in the world and orchestrating the propaganda to convince a rather brain dead society that a bunch of camel jockeys with box cutters and some jet fuel did it, was a phenomenal accomplishment. It was hardly anything that one would expect from a C- flunky who has trouble with his own regional dialect.

[eric_b]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse', 'M')icrohydro,You referenced "endgame" in relation to Halliburton. Do you have a link?

[eric_b]

Hmmm, just wanted to add:
All this talk of internment camps and political prisoners reminds me of a book I read a few years back that really made an impression. It's 'Coming out of the Ice' by Victor Herman. As a young man in the 30's, Victor's family traveled from the US (Detroit) to Russia so his father could work for Ford Motors there.

In Russia Victor became their top parachutest for a time, setting a jump record for altitude. Unfortunately he was also there during Stalin's rise to power and his purges. In the increasing environment of fear and paranoia in Russia prior to the start of WWII, Victor finds himself imprisoned and tortured - an ordeal that would last nearly 20 years.

Only becuase of his extraordinary constitution, both physically and mentally, is he able to survive. His first years he's crammed in a tiny cell with other 'politicals'. One meal a day of thin soup, no change of clothes, no shower. This lasts years. Later, in Siberia, he's able to survive by eating rats. It was a sobering story of suffering. one that many Russians had to endure.

He was eventually freed in the 70's, and returned to the US with his Russian wife and daughters. He wrote the story himself. So I'm unsettled to see things going in this direction in the US. It does frighten me a bit.

I suppose you want some bloody links on the book, Here's a review: link
Amazon: link
The book is no longer in print. Used copies are expensive. I was lent this book by a co-worker several years back. Just an unbelievable story of survival, I really recommend this book if you can find it.

[Chocky]

Interesting Doly, a few points-

It's far more compelling if you replace 'America' with 'Britain', since Britain is much more of a police state than America. At least in America people still, more or less, have the right to bear arms and the right to free speech, two very important rights in any free country. The same certainly can't be said for Britain.

It's hard to see a genocide of Muslims being carried out by America any time soon. If you look at Iraq at the moment, you will find that most Muslims are being killed not by Americans, but other Muslims.

Don't let your seething hatred of all things American stop you from seeing some of the basic truths out there.

[kochevnik]

KBR Internment Camps Are For ... Chinese. Well, at least in the beginning they are ...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ASHINGTON — China is refusing to take back an estimated 39,000 citizens who have been denied immigration to the United States and have clogged detention centers at federal expense, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said Tuesday.

[UIUCstudent01]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chertoff', '"')People used to say to me, 'Why would you want to give up a lifetime job in order to take this job?"' said Chertoff, who was a federal appeals court judge until he was confirmed last year as the nation's second homeland security chief. "And I didn't realize until a couple weeks ago that really, every year in this job is a lifetime. So in that sense, maybe I've traded up."

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

The Nazis never attacks or invade the USA but we declared war against them anyway.

Nope, Germany declared war on the US.

[eastbay]

BSG, The US was engaging in activities generally considered acts of war against Germany such as embargos, offering material aid to their enemies and the like. Basically the USA and Germany declared war on each other. The official 'declaration' has little meaning in our Age of Oil.

As we can all see from Vietnam, South Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other nations the USA has invaded and occupied during the past century or so a formal declaration is an anachronistic concept no longer required and rarely made anymore.

[Bobbotov]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Battle_Scarred_Galactico', '[')b]The Nazis never attacks or invade the USA but we declared war against them anyway. Nope, Germany declared war on the US.

[UIUCstudent01]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bobbotov', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Battle_Scarred_Galactico', '[')b]The Nazis never attacks or invade the USA but we declared war against them anyway. Nope, Germany declared war on the US.

[InformedEJ]

OK I saw this thread and I said, "i don't believe it at all." So this weekend i took a trip to one of these "Facilities" to see for myself. All I have to say is holy shit.... I didn't see any military helicopters like in the video from this forum, but i did see a lot of disturbing things. First this was on an abandoned railway station which is fine and dandy, but it was not the structure that was surrounded by the razor-wire. This facility was massive and i mean massive. There were 3 layers of fencing and all the razor-wire was facing inward.. only to keep people in. There was no wind sock but the "facility" had many watch towers with large radio antenna's. My military background tells me that these are watch towers with rifle placements on them. Many new equipment like heaters and water pipes, now this was something that i felt was no big deal. Then I walked in view of two buildings, blacked out window, huge gas containers, large smoke stacks on top of the structure and the building was made from brick. My feeling and assessment was this was indeed to a crematorium, but I could be wrong. There is no other purpose for this room and it was a room not a two story building. I don't think they are planning to melt train parts. This "facility" is in nothern california near an Air Force Base. I did talk to an individual from the air force base and the only information that she had was that the red cross also was engaged in this "program." I feel that this building for FEMA is a place to quarantine or to place individuals in a case of an national emergency. The crematorium is the appropriate way to destroy a body during a H5N1 Avian flu pandemic. If you are an american you should be alarmed. I will provide the pictures that i had taken on this trip when i have digitized my pictures.

[seahorse2]

Here is a link to the "endgame" plan formulated by the DHS: DHS

[grillzilla]

Well I can't seem to download the video in a reasonable time, but after reading 5 pages of chat I think I get the picture.
I have three words for you guys: the first two are: Bird Flu and the third is: Quarentine

you dont need strong fences if people believe they are there for their own good, or the good of others. If people are dying from a communicable disease you need to dispose of the body on site. Cant have contaminated corpses shuttling around the country. Guard towers for those who have second thoughts.

[Eli]

Uh, I think this video is over 10 years old guys.

There are no late model cars in the video at all. The people who filmed it are driving a full sized Ford van while those are still being made they are not popular and the one in the video is definitely a late 80"s early 90's model. And all the other cars that are in the video are all late 80's model cars as well.

The video quality is very poor along the lines of those old VHS video cameras. You can see at the 1:45 minute mark that the shadow of the person doing the filming is holding a large bulky camera.

The voice over says that the facility was supposed to close in 1993 but millions in funds have been spent over the past 2 years on the facility. Which would make the video 11 years old.

[seahorse2]

Eli, Don't bore us with the facts.

[Eli]

Sorry The place is obviously a concentration camp built by the Bush administration. The layout of the place looks exactly like Birkenau,... almost like they used the same schematics to build the place. Friggin scary man