[seldom_seen]

thank you, finally someone posts a simple clear cut topic that everyone can agree on: Israel & Palestine.

Narrow-minded provincialism: Sad to say but true – I am more interested in the mountain lions of Utah, the wild pigs of Arizona, than I am in the fate of all the Arabs of Araby, all the Wogs of Hindustan, all the Ethiopes of Abyssinia ... -Ed Abbey

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 't')hank you, finally someone posts a simple clear cut topic that everyone can agree on: Israel & Palestine.

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'I') really can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'R')eally though, on to the topic, just give it another 1400 years and maybe their issues will be resolved.

[coyote]

Not trying to take sides, but I've never really understood Arab greivances here. They had a chance to allow peaceful coexistence between Israelis and Palestinians and flatly rejected it. Despite all comments that 'they've been at each others' throats for centuries' -- a cursory study of previous centuries, while there were of course problems, doesn't really indicate the level of hatred we see now. Where did this come from? Is it just xenophobia? Is it somehow a side effect of the geopolitical rise of oil in the Middle East?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]UN Partition

Main article: 1947 UN Partition Plan

On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine (United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181), a plan to resolve the Arab-Jewish conflict by partitioning the territory into separate Jewish and Arab states, with the Greater Jerusalem area (encompassing Bethlehem) coming under international control [5]. Jewish leaders (including the Jewish Agency), accepted the plan, while Palestinian Arab leaders rejected it. Neighboring Arab states also rejected the partition plan. As armed skirmishes between Arab and Jewish paramilitary forces in Palestine continued, the British mandate ended on May 15, 1948, and the establishment of the State of Israel was proclaimed on that same day. The neighboring Arab states immediately attacked Israel following its declaration of independence, and the 1948 Arab-Israeli War ensued. Consequently, the partition plan was never implemented. (Emphasis mine.)

[Guest]

Colonization of Palestine Precludes Peace

Everyplace that moslum communities have been allowed to infect and fester seem to be having similar difficulties achieving “peace in our time”. The middle east, London, Madrid, India, the former home of the twin towers, etc.

Probably just a coincidence.

Israel would have a better chance at achieving peace if it “decolonized” all of the Islamic invaders back to the nasty places they originally invaded from.

[Kickinthegob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Guest', 'E')veryplace that moslum communities have been allowed to infect and fester seem to be having similar difficulties achieving “peace in our time”. The middle east, London, Madrid, India, the former home of the twin towers, etc.

[kam30en]

It is a simple fact. Everywhere there are muslims and non-muslims, there is violence. Sudan, Nigeria, Israel, Balkans, Chechnya, Phillipines, and Thailand. I could include a dozen others here, but you get it. They are a step above africans on the intelligence curve, but have the same barbaric tendencies. Just the fact that they are running around in the 21st century talking about a magic man in the sky who wants them to kill should tell you they are psychotic barbarians who need to be sterilized en masse.

[mekrob]

Only a few people believe that and are currently doing that now. You might want to look back in history when Christians were doing the same thing, BTW.

BTW, everywhere there are PEOPLE there is violence, THAT is a simple fact. It doesn't matter if they white, black, jewish, christian, muslim. There has always been violence. But you single out muslims as the only aggressors. Why? I'm going go out on a limb and say you're a bigot.

[ohanian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'O')nly a few people believe that and are currently doing that now. You might want to look back in history when Christians were doing the same thing, BTW.

BTW, everywhere there are PEOPLE there is violence, THAT is a simple fact. It doesn't matter if they white, black, jewish, christian, muslim. There has always been violence. But you single out muslims as the only aggressors. Why? I'm going go out on a limb and say you're a bigot.

[Kickinthegob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kam30en', 'J')ust the fact that they are running around in the 21st century talking about a magic man in the sky who wants them to kill should tell you they are psychotic barbarians who need to be sterilized en masse.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kam30en', '.')..They are a step above africans on the intelligence curve, but have the same barbaric tendencies...they are psychotic barbarians who need to be sterilized en masse.

[HonestPessimist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '
')BTW, everywhere there are PEOPLE there is violence, THAT is a simple fact. It doesn't matter if they white, black, jewish, christian, muslim. There has always been violence. But you single out muslims as the only aggressors. Why? I'm going go out on a limb and say you're a bigot.

[HonestPessimist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kickinthegob', '[')url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/03/12/do1201.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/03/12/ixhome.html]The fatal divide at the heart of the Coalition[/url]
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')I've had conversations with many [US security contractors] and regular US soldiers who are evangelical Christians," writes John Geddes, the ex-SAS soldier quoted above, "who see themselves in a crusade against the Muslim hordes. In my view, they're not much different to the Iraqi militiamen and foreign fighters who see themselves at the heart of a jihad against the Christian crusaders."

[Kickinthegob]

Maybe grains of salt. The article caught my eye because SAS are not your run of the mill soldier, I would think it rare for one to quit while in action since they are profiled quite a bit so things like that don't happen, it was shear personal disgust in what he saw from what I gather. Another interesting point is that America has been scraping the barrel for recruits, many have criminal records and most are functionally illiterate, basically guys you find hangin in the worst parts of town in the worst cities - the recruiters have it down to a science. It is not hard to imagine how they are going to react when you drop them off in the desert with a gun and tell them to treat everyone like the enemy. Recipe for lots of killing and not much thinking.

As for your Ottoman Empire comment yeah, I see a parallel, hard to say who will win the war of atrocities!

[HonestPessimist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kickinthegob', 'M')aybe grains of salt. The article caught my eye because SAS are not your run of the mill soldier, I would think it rare for one to quit while in action since they are profiled quite a bit so things like that don't happen, it was shear personal disgust in what he saw from what I gather. Another interesting point is that America has been scraping the barrel for recruits, many have criminal records and most are functionally illiterate, basically guys you find hangin in the worst parts of town in the worst cities - the recruiters have it down to a science. It is not hard to imagine how they are going to react when you drop them off in the desert with a gun and tell them to treat everyone like the enemy. Recipe for lots of killing and not much thinking.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HonestPessimist', 'Y')ou're right, the recruiters have gotten everything down to a science... to the degree they have to be careful in screening people for potential problems in the future the military cannot afford to have.

[mekrob]

Ohanian, I understand what you mean. By no means am I trying to apologize for their sick actions. Do they mostly have credence to their grievances? I believe so. But is targeting civilians a good way to go about it? Of course not. It's impractical as it diverts attention and strenghtens the enemy and it's plain sick and disgusting. But kam30en was suggesting sterilizing 'en masse'. Since there aren't many that actively fight against civilization, he must have meant Muslims, or at least a large chuck of them. It's no secret that Christians have done atrocious actions in the past because of God. Had his plan been implamented throughout history, there's a good chance he wouldn't be alive. I was just pointing out that this isn't the first time that wars have been fought in the name of religion.

HonestPessimist, I don't see where you're argument fits in with my quote. I made no mention of a clash of religions or civilizations. No mention of Europe. Enlighten me if you will.

[rogerhb]

Israel storms prison to seize Palestinian militant

All quite on the western front.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Reuters', 'J')ERICHO, West Bank (Reuters) - Israeli forces stormed a West Bank prison on Tuesday to try to seize the leader of a Palestinian militant group accused of killing an Israeli minister, storming in after U.S. and British monitors withdrew.

A guard and a prisoner were killed in clashes at Jericho prison, housing Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) leader Ahmed Saadat and five other prominent figures held under foreign supervision for four years.

[Kickinthegob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HonestPessimist', 'P')lease refrain from any asinine suggestion that the US is committing "atrocities" in Iraq. The mainstreamed but biased media tends to spoonfed you