by GoIllini » Thu 20 Oct 2005, 16:15:36
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('fossilnut2', '"')They are, by and large, some of the open hearted and good people in the world, just very misinformed."
I 'used' to defend Americans that way.
"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, etc."
Not any more. Not since the 'Freedom Fries' culture. The blatant misrepresentation in the UN about WMDs was done by the administration but the American people wanted to believe. They wanted to believe the world is black and white and good and evil and you're with us or against us. Modern USA certainly isn't 1930's Germany but the American public reminded me of the Germans salivating to find a bogeyman to justify marching off on a crusade for some type of misplaced idealism.
2005? Why are you in Iraq? not because of freedom and democracy or any other ideal but only because you can't figure out (as in Vietnam) how the hell to get out. You don't give a hoot about Iraqis but only about American image...the embarassment of leaving with your tail between your legs and going back to eating 'French fries'.
The lack of media is bogus. Reminds me of those German. 'I didn't know'. Baloney. You 'chose' not to know and be blind. The re-election of Bush in 2004 was a statement that Americans have priorities other than a moral and ethical leadership.
You can't hide anymore behind 'ah, shucks, we're really good at heart' anymore. Much of the world sees Americans as no more than the schoolyard bully who has fallen flat on his face in Iraq. We chuckle under our breath and wink at eachother. The question is whether or not the bully will learn once he stands up again. He learned after Vietnam, put the white hat back and regained respect. I don't think, however, after Iraqinam, the American people will 'get it'.
I'm guessing you're French? You guys aren't exactly perfect, either. Now that the oil-for-food scandal's gotten out, even a lot of anti-war folks are speculating that part of the reason the security council voted against the war was kickbacks from the Iraqi government.
A year ago, I would have agreed with you that we're in horrible shape in Iraq. But IMHO, we're about halfway done. The insurgents in Iraq are now focusing on Iraqies, rather than the U.S- and when that happens, they pretty much ruin whatever support base they might have.
I still think the war was incredibly stupid- and I'll never forgive Bush and Cheney for it. But I think that at this point, it's looking different than the total disaster Vietnam was. At least from what CNN's reporting, many of the attacks are Sunnis attacking everyday people for the sake of causing terror. I'm still trying to figure out how an insurgency can sustain itself while doing that- the Vietcong couldn't have done it.
And some of the journalists on CNN are saying that the country is getting better. The number of phone lines in the country is up six-fold since when Saddam was running things, and electronics and home appliances can't come into the country quick enough. Sure, it's not fun with about 12 hours of electricity a day, but people still want them for when there is power.
What if the U.S. is successful in cleaning up Bush's mess and we manage to kick the neocons out of the White House in the process? Will the world still hate us?