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THE Africa Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Extractive industries (oil, mining) loot Africa

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 15:05:50

I would argue that this is more to due with the African elite hording monies collected from oil and gas revenues than it has to do with foreign oil companies. Outside of the Total corruption scandal of a number of years ago I don't think there has been a lot of finger pointing at foreign companies for making illegal payments (ie. outside of facilitating payments).
Note that these governments make a horrendous amount of money....in Angola and Nigeria signature bonuses for acreage awarded have been in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Foreign companies in Angola get less than 20% of the overall revenues from oil and gas....the lions share going to the government. The problem is this money is not used to benefit the people of the country.....it is not put into reducing taxes, it is not used to build schools, roads and hospitals. Much of it makes it's way into the coffers of the folks in charge....eg: President for life Bongo in Gabon....lot's of oil and gas revenues over the years but one of the poorest countries in Africa from the standpoint of the individual.
That being said I think this is something that is really only present in West Africa. In Libya The Leader has been very good about distributing oil wealth throughout the nation. The same can be said of Algeria and Egypt.
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Re: Extractive industries (oil, mining) loot Africa

Unread postby seahorse2 » Mon 20 Feb 2006, 15:45:18

Don't worry everyone, the market economy will sort things about.
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Re: What's the Matter with Africa?

Unread postby 0mar » Tue 21 Feb 2006, 08:23:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'j')aws, the money was stolen by dictators.

I'm saying that we need to actually build basic infrastructure and not just enrich the military despots.
That was a rhetorical question. I know where the money went. But theft of property is systematic in the west as much as in Africa, so we're not making a very good example.

"We" don't need to do anything about Africa. If it were a peaceful, secure land then there would be a rush by private investors, local and international, to invest in its infrastructure. But there isn't. No one is safe.


You know what. Let's enslave white people for 400 years, fuck up their countries for anothe 100 and then install corrupt dictators and see how that clusterfuck turns out.

You vastly underestimate the damage done economically, culturally and politically by colonialism.
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Re: What's the Matter with Africa?

Unread postby TheTurtle » Tue 21 Feb 2006, 12:25:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', ' ')

You know what. Let's enslave white people for 400 years, fuck up their countries for anothe 100 and then install corrupt dictators and see how that clusterfuck turns out.

You vastly underestimate the damage done economically, culturally and politically by colonialism.


We'd probably end up with a culture wallowing in fast food, War-on-Drugs, McMansions, SUVs, WalMart, NASCAR and the Patriot Act .... 8O ... oh, wait ... nevermind.
“Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
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Re: What's the Matter with Africa?

Unread postby jaws » Tue 21 Feb 2006, 18:37:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', 'Y')ou know what. Let's enslave white people for 400 years, fuck up their countries for anothe 100 and then install corrupt dictators and see how that clusterfuck turns out.

You vastly underestimate the damage done economically, culturally and politically by colonialism.
And how do you think people lived in Africa before colonialism? They had their own slavers and kingdoms and corrupt rulers. The Imperial powers just overthrew the local thugs.

The West before the enlightenment was full of bad rulers and slavery and corruption. How did we ever get over this?
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Re: What's the Matter with Africa?

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 21 Feb 2006, 19:24:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'T')he West before the enlightenment was full of bad rulers and slavery and corruption. How did we ever get over this?


What makes you say we have?

Only the slavery one is ambiguous and one could easily argue the poor around the world are victims of economic slavery.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: What's the Matter with Africa?

Unread postby 0mar » Tue 21 Feb 2006, 22:39:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'T')he Imperial powers just overthrew the local thugs, broke up families, killed millions of people within a hundred years, depleted natural resources, enslaved millions more, gutted boundaries, forced assmiliation and denigrated a culture and people for centuries after they had pulled out.


Fixed that for you.
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Re: What's the Matter with Africa?

Unread postby jaws » Tue 21 Feb 2006, 23:04:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'W')hat makes you say we have?

Only the slavery one is ambiguous and one could easily argue the poor around the world are victims of economic slavery.

We are all still slaves to socialism, especially poor Africans, so on this point you have it right.
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Down by 556,000 barrels a day in Africa

Unread postby Bleep » Thu 09 Mar 2006, 07:18:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url=http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aDRMkPcuI32k&refer=news_index]Oil Rises From 3-Week Low on Concern Supplies May Be Disrupted (link)[/url]

Violence in Nigeria has cut production in the country by 556,000 barrels a day, easing pressure on OPEC to cut output, said Edmund Daukoru, the group's president and Nigeria's oil minister.
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Re: Down by 556,000 barrels a day in Africa

Unread postby Bleep » Thu 09 Mar 2006, 08:26:52

Seems only yesterday the story was 455,000.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url=http://www.newsone.ca/westfallweeklynews/stories/index.php?action=fullnews&id=154654]Nigerian militants say kill 7 soldiers in gunfight (link)[/url]

It was the biggest military attack on militants from the Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta since mid-February, when a military bombardment of a militant stronghold prompted a string of devastating attacks on oil installations and the kidnapping of nine foreign oil workers. ... The militants are still holding three foreign hostages -- two Americans and one Briton -- from last month‘s raids, when their attacks on pipelines and a loading platform forced Shell to cut 455,000 barrels a day output, or one fifth of the OPEC member‘s oil output.

Let's see 556,000 - 455,000 = 101,000. Where'd the 101,000 come from?
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Re: Down by 556,000 barrels a day in Africa

Unread postby Novus » Thu 09 Mar 2006, 08:40:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bleep', 'S')eems only yesterday the story was 455,000.

Let's see 556,000 - 455,000 = 101,000. Where'd the 101,000 come from?


Either more oil has been taken out by militants or TPTB are using this to hide declines elsewhere.
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Re: Down by 556,000 barrels a day in Africa

Unread postby DantesPeak » Thu 09 Mar 2006, 13:17:21

Protests earlier shut down Exxon terminal, but latest reports say the protest has broken up.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '3')/9/06 Agence Fr.-Presse 09:03:00
AGENCE FRANCE PRESSE ENGLISH WIRE
Copyright 2006 Agence France-Presse

Nigerian protesters besiege ExxonMobil export terminal

LAGOS, March 9, 2006 (AFP) - Protesters demanding jobs and local investment briefly besieged the US energy giant ExxonMobil's main Nigerian export terminal, a company spokesman said Thursday.

Wednesday's protest at the Qua Iboe Terminal in the southeastern state of Akwa Ibom was peaceful, but will raise further fears about the safety of Nigerian exports amid violent attacks elsewhere in the Niger Delta.

Nigeria's largest oil firm, the Anglo-Dutch major Shell, has been forced to cut 455,000 barrels per day of production since February 18, when separatist militants attacked the Forcados terminal and kidnapped nine foreign workers.

US giant Chevron has also cut 13,000 barrels per day following an attack on one of its pipelines, and in all around 20 percent of crude exports from Africa's largest supplier have been cut off.

"The youths came in some buses and set barricade at the Qua Iboe Terminal (QIT). Movement of staff was restricted for some 30 minutes," an ExxonMobil spokesman told AFP.

"Representatives from an organisation called Movement for the Survival of Ethnic Nationalities in the Niger Delta (MOSEND) held a peaceful rally outside.

"There were no injuries or impact on operations and the relevant security and government agencies have been informed," he added.

ExxonMobil is the second largest oil operator in Nigeria, accounting for 650,000 barrels out of the country's daily output of 2.6 million barrels, but its operations have been largely spared in recent militant attacks.
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Unread postby Bleep » Thu 09 Mar 2006, 14:58:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dante', 'l')atest reports say the protest has broken up.


The same reports from the people that don't take their attackers seriously?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url=http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=42608]As at the time of filing this report, the youths who came obviously prepared had barricaded the entrances of the QIT gates trapping members of staff inside.

THISDAY gathered last night that the youths had earlier sent messages to the management of Mobil that they would invade the facility but apparently were not taken seriously as they took Mobil Producing Nigeria (MPN) unawares.[/url]

The same reports from the people that call a pipeline explosion an "unexplained leak"?

I'm going to wait before I call this one finished.
Last edited by Bleep on Thu 09 Mar 2006, 15:09:06, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Down by 556,000 barrels a day in Africa

Unread postby Bleep » Thu 09 Mar 2006, 15:02:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Al-Qaeda', '[')url=http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=42608]Allah supports you oh Lions of Nigeria! ... Subsequently six of them were freed and they are Muslims while the American pigs remain in their hands. (link)[/url]
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Re: Down by 556,000 barrels a day in Africa

Unread postby dukey » Thu 09 Mar 2006, 15:18:11

whatever the number
any oil off the market could potentially affect the price
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Re: Down by 556,000 barrels a day in Africa

Unread postby DantesPeak » Thu 09 Mar 2006, 18:27:42

I expect if this situation gets any worse, which looks like the direction it is going, we will start to hear about the threat of Al Queda in Nigeria and what the US 'response' should be.
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Re: Down by 556,000 barrels a day in Africa

Unread postby Bleep » Thu 09 Mar 2006, 19:04:21

Another version from Africa:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url=http://www.andnetwork.com/app?service=direct/0/Home/$StorySummary$0.$DirectLink$1&sp=l23031]Nigerian soldiers perish in a battle with militias (link)[/url]

Nigerian militias in the Niger Delta on Wednesday killed five government soldiers in a battle. Captain Obiora Medani confirmed to a news agency that four army troops and one paramilitary policeman were killed in a gun battle.

The militias are however, claiming that 13 government soldiers had been killed and warned that the group's hostages, two Americans and a Briton, "are endangered by such experiments carried out by the Nigerian army.

...

"There was a firefight, which lasted about 45 minutes," he said.
...

In a separate incident at the other, eastern end of the delta, protesters briefly besieged the US major ExxonMobil's Qua Iboe export terminal to protest againsy pollution and demand jobs and local investment, the firm said.

"The youths came in some buses and set a barricade ... Movement of staff was restricted for some 30 minutes," a company spokesman said.
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Will central Africa become like the Sahara?

Unread postby Zardoz » Thu 09 Mar 2006, 23:34:28

It's starting to look like it might:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/03 ... index.html

Is this a "cyclical" event, or has global warming changed the climate for good?
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Re: Will central Africa become like the Sahara?

Unread postby coyote » Fri 10 Mar 2006, 00:35:40

I think Africa will be only the first place to experience this desertification... following that will be central Asia, India, China, the Southwestern U.S. and Mexico, then Northern Europe (going to the other extreme, freezing their asses off), flooding of coastal cities -- then gods only know what after that. Even the sharpest scientists in the world don't have a really clear picture of how loss of biodiversity in forests and reef areas will affect things. I do know they're getting scared. Even the ones who thought this was bullshit ten years ago are starting to freak. Which scares the crap out of me. This is not going to be fun.
Lord, here comes the flood
We'll say goodbye to flesh and blood
If again the seas are silent in any still alive
It'll be those who gave their island to survive...
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Re: Will central Africa become like the Sahara?

Unread postby FireJack » Fri 10 Mar 2006, 01:46:38

I imagine that as oil production declines the amount of coal burned and trees cut down will increase. Unless there is some massive population die off for whatever reason I imagine the rapid depletion of natural resouces will force those who survive to live in a world where you take nothing for granted. People can survive in the desert though, so we will probably carry on in some form in the end.
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