[Falconoffury]

I agree completely with Specop. These people need guidance, not food.

[hotsacks]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elroy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gorm', 'w')asnt the most killings (about 500 000 if my memory is correct) in Rwanda made by knifes, spears and meachetes? Humanity do not let lack of modern weapons stand in their way when killing someone else is fashion for the moment.

[Eli]

It is not wrong to ask why Africa really over the last 2000 years has not contributed that much to human history.

As I see it Africa's main problem is that it is decidedly tribal, some tribe is always trying to wipe out another. Then you have all these artificial territories that are made up of tribes that have always hated each other. Africa is like a bunch of Yugoslavia's that would never have formed without some outside pressure.

And then add in the 25 million people living with AIDS and the 12+ million children orphaned because of the disease it all adds up to one sad human tragedy that is unfolding before our eyes.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elroy', '
')Africans ? Name one conqueror.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hotsacks', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elroy', '
') Besides the egyptians of centuries ago, and perhaps Hannibal, although they were phoenicians.

[hotsacks]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elroy', '
')Africans ? Name one conqueror.

[Raxozanne]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elroy', '
')No I know that, I'm just wondering why europeans developed themself through strive, warfare and conquest, and the africans only made war, not much conquest or development at all.

[Eli]

Who cars about conquerors.

Hey Dolly

Name one great Nation in the modern era less than 2000 years ago that contributed in a major way to mankind?

Name some great highly influential Cities, great African scholars and scientists?

And I do not buy at all that it was the man keeping Africa down, I see that as a rationalization of endemic problems that come from the culture it self. After all there countless examples in Asian and Western cultures where one culture was subjugated by another until the subjugated through off their oppressors only to blossom and flourish.

Africa has had some great war lords that succeeded for awhile but no great cultures that went on to blossom and flourish in a lasting way, it was always limited success then collapse back into constant tribal warfare.

[Falconoffury]

Jean Luc Picard: There are people suffering and dying on that planet.

Q: Oh, your species is always suffering and dying.

I just couldn't resist throwing that quote in there. Anyone know the show and episode it's from?

[hotsacks]

Good piece on the perils of future oil wealth in Africa (or how too much money can make you poor.)[web]http://www.africafiles.org/atissueezine.asp#art1[/web]

[threadbear]

"Long-time oil producers like Nigeria, Angola, Congo-Brazzaville, Cameroon and Gabon have been unable or unwilling to convert their oil wealth into any serious forms of poverty reduction. Instead, oil has become a magnet for corruption and conflict. New oil producers, such as Sudan, Equatorial Guinea and Chad, appear to be repeating the same pattern, and with the same players." From linked article


I think "poverty reduction" in Africa means killing your poor tribal adversaries, using Russian kalashnikovs, American missile launchers and British grenades.

The other "paradox of plenty" is represented by the Saudi state that educated fed and employed most of it's people and in the process encouraged higher birth rates, only to have the ppb of oil plummet.

Most of the population was under 25, unmarried and unemployed, so the monarchy was looking at impending chaos, in the mid and late 90's. Of course the social dynamics changed when the price of oil skyrocketed. But when the oil runs out, what will all of these people do? Diversification of the economy into what?

Anyway you look at it, an economy that is predominantely supported by one resource is at risk.

[shakespear1]

I had a chance to see oil+Africa up close and personal. Must say that it is disgusting how horrible wrong wealth distribution works in the African oil states.

In Luanda, Angola people basicly live in garbage. Seeing is believing as words can not convey the tragedy.

[Novus]

Africa's Oil wealth will be put to the same use as the rest of the continent's resource wealth. It will go to supporting wastefull western lifestyles while the Africans will be left to clean up a wasteland.

[Lauren4]

Hi all, I am desperate for some advice on whether or not I should relocate.
Since I learned about peak oil in a course at university, I have been trying to learn as much as possible, so I can start making preparations for the crash. My biggest problem is that its hard to know whether or not I should get out of Africa. I live in Cape Town, which is at the tip of the continent. The weather is great here, perfect for farming, but it is an extremely violent society, and if there is a huge economic crisis it will be even worse. There are huge crime ridden squatter camps around the city, and I suspect that when South Africa falls, the violence here will be even worse. For a while I consoled myself with the idea that my family (who have not accepted the reality of peak oil) could live in some kind of small suburban community in our area- we live in a security village, with a big veggie garden, ten separate houses and a bore-hole. There is large farm nearby, which I have also kept in mind. However, because of all the poverty in this country, I don't know if it will even be able to support small post-oil communities. I'm afraid that we would be attacked. I also suspect that there are certain countries which will hold up better than others, and I need to know which ones. Where will it be safest? Whats your advice? Is it a better idea to move to another country? I am possibly moving to England with my boyfriend after we are finished varsity, is that a better idea than trying to make preparations over here? Please, I am desperate for advice. Since I woke up to peak oil I've felt like I'm living in some kind of nightmare, but I am determined to survive. I'm just a student, and despite all the research I've done I still can't tell whether its a good idea to stay in Africa, or if I should try convince my family to move overseas. Please give any advice you can.

[TommyJefferson]

A low-energy, self-sustaining intentional community already exists in Africa near you...

http://www.orania.co.za/default_eng.asp

"...Orania represents a pursuit to independence in which a relatively small nation is trying to take control over its own affairs without wanting to take control over others. At the same time practices in Orania are not dependent on some or other efficient central management program, ...but a way of existence built on care and sustainability."

[thuja]

Hello Lauren- waking up to peak oil realities can be an intense shake-up of previous ideas about the world and plans for the future. Since you're new to the site, take some time to read a lot of the posts. There are many different views about what will happen, how it will happen and how long it will take to happen. We have back to the woods survivalists who think the apocalypse will happen TODAY and free-market thinkers who believe that implementation of new energy technologies will mitigate the worst of shifting away from petroleum. In between you have gradualists who believe things will get worse economically and politically as we can't keep up with depletion rates and that we will be forced to use less over all energy (power down).

For those who believe we will be forced into power down, there are varying opinions on how long it will take to drag us down into a recession and possible worldwide depression. Some believe we can then shift to more sustainable energy conservative practices at that point while others believe that this will just be a long spiral down into a post-industrial agrarian and occasionally "mad-maxish" world depending on where you live.

In terms of South Afica, you can only use your best judgment to decide what you think is going to happen and plan accordingly. But take your time. People change their views or crystalize their understanding as they delve into this. Many people are going to stay in a place they know will go through a lot of hardship but want to stay where they've been planted, so to speak. Others are actively searching for better places- land in the country, get out of the U.S., etc. There are numerous threads about this so just do a search and find the threads dealing with relocation. Good luck and keep on posting- finding out about this can be a bitter pill to swallow.

[kevincarter]

Unless you are planning to become a naked hunter gatherer with a Kalashnikov on your shoulder or something alike I would get the hell out! But I’m no expert, is just the feeling that I get. I don’t really think that black Africans appreciate white people. But you live there, ask yourself that question: if they could, if they had a chance, would they hurt you? If there were no consequences, would they do it? Or would you all get along well? In any case being in a African city surrounded by violent slums and lots of violence is not quite a good idea, specially if oil starts to run out. Africa can be fine maybe, but NOT in a city.

[Andrew_S]

I'd get out of South Africa. I believe Afrikaaner farmers are murdered on a regular basis and have been for some years. An economic crisis will make it much more deadly for whites, even in the cities.

New Zealand would be my first choice and failing that Canada or Australia. Maybe England is the easiest option for you (contacts, nationality) but I don't favour England itself in an energy crisis (Ireland maybe a bit better). The UK's financial situation with personal debt, a housing price mania, dependence of the economy on consumerism, declining energy production, massive trade deficits and government that lacks foresight make it a bad option in my opinion. In spite of my location I'm British, by the way.

[Leanan]

A couple of interesting and sobering stories frontpaged at DailyKos today.

One is by Devilstower, one of my favorite of the dKos writers. He's a coal industry insider, but one who is peak oil-aware. And a Jared Diamond fan. But today, he was not writing about energy or societal collapse, but about What's the matter with Africa?

In short, the problem with Africa is that most of it was not colonizable by Europeans. Incompatible climate. So rather than colonize it, as they did with North America, they extracted the wealth from it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n "colony" after colony, Africans were driven from their homes and moved to locations where they could work mines for diamonds, copper, gold, and other minerals. Or they found their own fields left fallow while they were forced to produce coffee, chocolate, and rubber -- crops that were exclusive to the tropics, but whose market was in the temperate world. Railroads were built, not to bring settlers in, but to take riches out. New settlements were created along the rivers, where it was easier to conduct trade.

The tropical civilization, designed to take advantage of the region's resources, and minimize the terrible effects of drought and disease, was destroyed.

[jaws]

Africa has had three generations to turn itself around. It's long past time they stopped blaming colonialism for all their problems. Former tropical colonies like Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong are huge successes.

When colonialism fell apart the African leaders who fought it claimed that Africa had been liberated. But since the continent was so under-developed, capitalism could never allow them to catch up to the western world. That is why they needed strong government control of the economy, a "third" world unaligned with the capitalist west but also unaligned with the Soviet Union.

The results of African socialism were exactly the same as socialism everywhere: economic decline, social disintegration, systemic corruption and finally civil war.