[Yamaha_R6]

the Amish... good life, and they use no oil.: The Amish are a perfect example of a society that uses NO OIL whatsoever. Imagine if you were omish but has solar panels to power lights and phones and computers... maybe even TVs.

So its possible folks... no oil is not the end of the world, just the end of a lifestyle. If Die-offs start to occur, lets all pack up and head to the Amish and ask to join their lovely society for a more pure and food filled life.

There popluation is shrinking and they need more workers. They somehow have nice houses and nice things and eat lots of food... but use no oil at all. GENIUSES. Am I the only one who has thought of this... or do you people ignore the Amish because by aknowledging their existence you are accepting its possible to live a modern, safe lifestyle with no oil at all. Thus the end of the world is not coming.

{Amish; EE}

[MattSavinar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Yamaha_R6', 'T')he omish are a perfect example of a society that uses NO OIL whatsoever. Imagine if you were omish but has solar panels to power lights and phones and computers... maybe even TVs.
So its possible folks... no oil is not the end of the world, just the end of a lifestyle. If Die-offs start to occur, lets all pack up and head to the Omish and ask to join their lovely society for a more pure and food filled life.
There popluation is shrinking and they need more workers. They somehow have nice houses and nice things and eat lots of food... but use no oil at all. GENIUSES. Am I the only one who has thought of this... or do you people ignore the Omish because by aknowledging their existence you are accepting its possible to live a modern, safe lifestyle with no oil at all. Thus the end of the world is not coming.

[Leanan]

The Amish do use oil. They may live a low-tech lifestyle in general, but they are part of the modern world, and they use its conveniences when it suits them.

For example, when they are sick, they go to modern doctors and state of the art hospitals, high-tech life support, etc. In emergencies, they go to their neighbors with phones and cars and borrow the use of them. They are part of our global economy, buying stuff they need and selling stuff they make so they can earn money to buy stuff.

You can't live like the Amish "only with solar panels." Who is going to make the solar panels? Amish sure can't.

Don't get me wrong - life can be good without modern technology. The happiest people in the world are Nigerians. But that's not a "modern, energy-rich" life. And you can't point to the Amish as an example of people who live without oil.

[waterfordcrystal]

"Their population is shrinking" - not quite. Thanks to a large average family size and a remarkable level of success in keeping their youngsters Amish, their numbers have doubled every 20 years since WW2. Peak Amish?

[RIPSmithianEconomics]

(a) I hate to be an English bot (least of all because I'm not English) but I think the plural for genius is genii (pronounced ge-ni-i). I could well be wrong, but I think that is how you make a singular noun into a plural in Latin. Er, sorry about that.

(b) I can't see the whole world being logistically able to switch to that lifestyle without a large population decrease.

(c) The danger of agricultural communities is that they work on the "boom and bust" cycle rather than Keynsian theory of vaguely stable economy (in its widest sense). What I mean is that agarian populations increase as food supply increases, then famine strikes and they crash. Ancient Western societies, and even those as recent as the 19th century usually functioned on increase-crash-increase cycles. I haven't heard of anything in the Amish doctrine to prevent such tragedies.

[The_Virginian]

Yamaha_r6,

Assuming we don't destroy civilization fighting over the remaining recources, many many of us could live very nicely as the amish did 100 years ago, and some try to do now.

IF peak oil hits like a rock, don't expect your "novel" idea to save you. Most of your neigbors will have had the same conclusion, and I hope the Amish are well armed.

I know the traditional amish don't use electricity, but they have some kind of refrigeration that runs off of kerosene (so I read)..

I beleive the Peak oil issue will break slowly, and society will have time to readjust...then you may be living an amish lifestyle w/o the "lifestyle"....your bread will be of the sweat of your brow....

Anyhow, it's a qaint notion that we can just turn back the clock 100 years and not expect some very ugly results...a slow break or not.

[Itch]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') hope the Amish are well armed.

[Pops]

The Amish family we’re buying (hopefully) our place from hire heavy tractor work, use a gasoline powered air compressor to run the well pump, have propane refrigeration, buy goods – however “plain”- produced and transported with cheap energy and he made cash on the side repairing others farm equipment.

Granted they wouldn’t miss TV or drive-ins but they would be affected as well.

Having said that I hope to be able to learn from those still in the area even if it is only by watching.

Might even grow me a beard. lol

BTW, I think the Amish are pacifists.

[tkn317071]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he danger of agricultural communities is that they work on the "boom and bust" cycle rather than Keynsian theory of vaguely stable economy (in its widest sense). What I mean is that agarian populations increase as food supply increases, then famine strikes and they crash. Ancient Western societies, and even those as recent as the 19th century usually functioned on increase-crash-increase cycles.

[Denny]

The Amish have been especially astute farmers by selecting premium farm lands which do not experience nearly the degree of "boom and bust" crop yields that prevails in most agriculture. At least, this is what see evident in southern Pennsylvania and the Waterloo region of Ontario, Canada. Other farmers envy their savy in this regard, even if they do not share the Amish disregard for modern convenience.

Hence, they have been able to feed large families and effectively plan herd growth and achieve a remarkable economic consistency, despite the generally depressed nature of farm prices for many years now.

Regrettably, I do not believe that the Amish ways would be viable on the drier lands of the Great Plains. The climate there does not lend itself well to the balanced, and relatively self-sufficient, nature of mixed farming that the Amish are so good at.

[The_Virginian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'h')ave propane refrigeration

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '(')a) I hate to be an English but (least of all because I'm not English) but I think the plural for genius is genii (pronounced ge-ni-i).

[RIPSmithianEconomics]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'N')ope. Not in American English, anyway. The plural of genius is geniuses. Unless you're talking about the original sense of the word: a Latin guardian spirit of a person or place. Then the plural is genii.

[chris-h]

Will the Amish survive peak oil ? If the hard crash happens it seems to me they would be better off than anybody else.
Am i wrong? Please discuss.

[dmtu]

They are kind of pacifist. Not sure how they would react to heathens comming in and stealing their resources. Other than that I would think they will come through fairly well.

[Itch]

Amish real estate is probably the most valuable land in America today. If someone with plenty of money and power wants their land for agricultural use, then they will have very little trouble doing so.

[pea-jay]

Yeah, I think they will do alright. If they are not located too close to larger urban areas Amish communities, they should manage. Amish communities are relatively self contained, but they do not exist complete isolation from outsiders. Nor are they prohibated from doing so. As things begin to unravel, Amish neighbors will begin to see them as resources and adopt some or many techniques as more energy-intensive options become unavailable. Even though they wouldn't become Amish they would begin to be more appreciative of them and maybe form friendships. That connection to the outside may give them enough protection from scavengers.

Long term (and I mean real long term) Amish society is not sustainable. They just have too many kids. Given enough time the Amish will reach a growth limiting thresh hold (available arable land for cultivation)

[Kingcoal]

The Amish have a culture devoid of fossil fuel. They are the most efficient farmers in the US when measured by product produced per energy expended. If they can't survive, who can?

I don't buy into the food riot theory. Maybe I'm naive, but I think we will change our priorities before we run out of food. In Pennsylvania, almost all the corn is grown for animal feed. That's corn that could be fed to people. I think that even with the drop off in production from lack of artificial fertilizers we can still save a lot of people.

[savethehumans]

Actually, Richard Heinberg writes of the Amish in his new book, POWERDOWN. When discussing how relocalization (community-centered society) might work in the Post-Carbon Age, he uses the Amish as a strong example of how we might learn to live. (We're talking the lifestyle; you can take the religious aspects or not; still, a moral ethos will be central to the success of any community; secularism--which gravitates toward consumerism, anyway--won't do it.)

Indeed, despite gains in health care (if you can afford it!), there's an awful lot we can live without in our current society, whether we care (or want to) believe it. The problem is not that we cannot create a new type of society, but whether the consequences of the Peak Oil Era (resource wars, die-offs, social anarchy, etc.) will be so severe, it will be difficult, if not impossible, to easily create the society needed post-oil & gas. The Amish, to their credit, don't seem to need much in the way of either energy source, which would make THEIR transition easier--if the rest of us don't trample down their world, as has been suggested above. Rotsa ruck on that one! Prayer does sound like a helpful activity in this situation.

[pea-jay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Amish have a culture devoid of fossil fuel. They are the most efficient farmers in the US when measured by product produced per energy expended.