[jdumars]

Even though I didn't make the top 5 doomer list, I'd say I am right up there. I joke with people the the majority of my last name is DOOMars, so it only makes sense.

My economic profile is decidedly upper-middle class with almost no debt, land/car ownership, some paper investments and lots of physical asset investments for post-PO living. So, I would say that I don't fit the economically-disaffected description posited in the original post.

The question about what constitutes a doomer is a good one. I will take a shot at categorizing some different types.

Eco-doomer: A person who subscribes to the belief that human abuse of the Earth's ecosystem will (or is already beginning to) result in catastrophic conditions unfavorable to continued human (and other) life.

Econ-doomer: A person who believes the US (or world) economy is in eminent threat of complete collapse, such that the only acceptable form of future currency will be real goods, bartered skills or precious metals.

PO-doomer: A person who firmly believes that PO will trigger a complete breakdown in world finance (see Econ-doomer), social order, public infrastructure, government and virtually all forms of modern convenience. There are subsets of the PO-doomer profile that predict the speed and extent of breakdown -- these are the hard and soft landers.

Hard Lander: A person who believes that the post-peak transition will be both rapid and utterly devastating. This person believes a large part of the population will not survive the transition without additional, extensive preparation that may already be too late.

Soft Lander: A person who believes the post-peak transition will be relatively slow and relatively orderly. Most still qualify as doomers because they feel the transition is inevitable.

Schadenfreudoomer: A doomer of any variety that takes pleasure knowing that society (or elements of society such as consumerism or corporate monoculture) will cease to exist as we know it.

LATOC-doomer: A person that bases their outlook largely on Matt Savinar's site and book. This is a particular mix of the various doomer-profiles.

Doer-doomer: A doomer that believes a societal/energy/monetary crash is coming soon and is actively preparing their lives to avoid the most damaging anticipated aspects of it. This typically involves buying arable or remote land, learning trades, growing food and preparing for a life independent of third-party energy providers. Typically a doer-doomer is middle to upper class with the financial resources and motivation to actually accomplish preparations.

Festering-doomer: A doomer of any variety that does nothing to prepare for what they believe is coming, yet complains, frets and talks about it incessantly. The festering doomer typically feels helpless in the face of the threat due to circumstances beyond their immediate control such as finances, relationships, or family obligations. Many festering doomers are married to spouses who do not believe in PO and dismiss their ideas.

Happy-doomer: A doomer who is typically a happy person but has a tendency to assume that the worst case scenario is the most likely. This doesn't imply negativity as a personality trait, just a tendency to focus on the arguments or data that points toward the most severe outcome. Happy-doomers watch commodoties prices every day, watch CNN (and occasionally Fox for another viewpoint) endlessly, and have a regular suite of self-reinforcing blogs that they visit (such as deconsumption or depletion). Happy doomers can be very optimistic about lots of things -- except PO or anything to do with it.

Did I miss anything?

[Liamj]

Hey thanks jdumars, nice wrap. When we stack those classifications, say for an econecopodo-or doomer, should we order them with greatest-first, or just whatevers easiest to say?

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

I think pretty much everyone is powerless, and "festering" just sounds horrible.

I'd put myself under Econ-PO.

[dbarberic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'D')Barberic, Anyone who criticizes run away consumption is just jealous? What cloistered prep school did you just step out of? Don't mistake genuine contempt and disdain for envy, or jealousy.

[rushdy]

I agree with Schneider, what I crave more than anything else in life is REAL freedom. The freedom to live and learn only for myself, and to live or die by my efforts.

I detest taxation, especially council tax. This is one of the few things which prevents people from escaping the system. A lot of my views align with anarchism.

In general I try to help people close to me to understand and prepare for future problems, although they don't always listen. Once I have made the effort, I see my obligation to them as being fulfilled. I havn't kept it from them. After that they can make their own choices. If they don't listen, then I may not help them in the future.

I am quite a doomer in the sense that I think the future will bring big changes. As a lot of people have said though, I think the problem lies squarely at the foot of our civilisation today. These problems aren't the fault of individuals, but the collection of individuals which come together to cause these problems. o2ny is right, it isn't the fault of individuals who are born into our society. If they don't look outside of their own small lives they probably won't realise whats wrong. kochevnik is right too, seeing people living their lives like that makes me very angry. But it isn't the individual people themselves that are the problem, it is the collection of them which form our 'society'. It's important to realise this is not some collusion between evil greed mongers, but rather the collective stupidity of institutionalised individuals. Once the institution is gone, future generations will start from a different view of the world.

I would describe myself as firmly middle class. The main differance between the classes isn't money though (although I do fit into a middle class bracket) it's your attitude. To actually be middle class, in the real sense, you need to have some morals and values - although this is abused by politicians these days. It is these morals and values which set lower and middle class people apart. It isn't hard to recognise a lower class person who has slightly more money. Likewise, it isn't difficult to recognise a middle class person without as much money as most middle class people. Its who you are as much as what you've got.

[sjn]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbarberic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'D')Barberic, Anyone who criticizes run away consumption is just jealous? What cloistered prep school did you just step out of? Don't mistake genuine contempt and disdain for envy, or jealousy.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Liamj', 'A')re some Doomers, life’s current economic losers?
Fairly likely, not withstanding the testimonies above which suggest few are.

Are some Doomers, life’s current economic winners?
Very probably, given the prerequisites of leisure, IT hardware and connectivity, literacy, &? numeracy. And the testimonies above. So what?


Isn't it about time those who reflexively use the term doomer defined what and who is a doomer?

To me the doomers are those who can see no problem with oil depletion, nuclear weapons in iraq+afghanistan+bosnia, persistant organic pollutants, fishery collapse, water table pollution, ...
Their stupidity leads inexorably to doom. Specop is the biggest doomer here.

[oowolf]

Uberdoomer AND angry. Can't wait for massive dieoff (99.9%) Not because I will enjoy it, I just know behavior has consequences. I see dieoff as the only solution to biosphere destruction because (far too many) humans are incorrigibly STUPID. "Let's all kill each other over CARTOONS!!!" Gaia is thinking: "You call THAT a problem? Let me show you some REAL problems!" Stupidity + destructive behavior=death.

Haven't you folks, that don't like paying taxes, ever heard of the UNDERGROUND ECONOMY?

And DON'T SAY I'm not a caring person. I took care of a bipolar (DSM Type 1 with Severe with Psychotic Features) woman who died of ALS, for more years than some of you have been alive, and NEVER got one f***ing CENT from "Social Security" or SSI. After that, dieoff will be easy.

Now excuse me while I go have a beer.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbarberic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'D')Barberic, Anyone who criticizes run away consumption is just jealous? What cloistered prep school did you just step out of? Don't mistake genuine contempt and disdain for envy, or jealousy.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Nothing could be sweeter than the prospect of twenty more years of slow steady growth, stability and status quo. Prove all those doom&gloomers wrong and life will be great. Someday they'll have problems, but just not yet not here. There are some maybe with envy problems but not me; life's cozy. All I could ask for is nothing changes. happiness is the absence of pain.

[AmericanEmpire]

How about suicidal doomer. One who thinks that whats comming is going to be so horrible they don't want to stick around to witness and experience the misery and suffering that is about to befall our species.

[k_semler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Phebagirl', 'T')he U.S. Constitution, upon which my entire sociology should be based, is being put through a paper shredder ...thousands upon thousand are being stripped off Medicaid

[Aaron]

By definition, everyone who is posting here is enjoying fabulous wealth & unprecedented prosperity.

Since the vast majority of your fellow humans live in squalid poverty, it's a little funny to me to watch a group of pampered individuals argue over who is an economic loser.

Let's pose a question to our members...

How many people have you seen starve to death?

Because roughly 10x the population of New Orleans died from lack of food worldwide... last year alone.

So buck up campers...

You & your culture have been very successful at concentrating wealth on yourselves, and isolating the vast majority of humanity from this wealth.

Congratulations.

You win!

So... how's that workin for ya so far?

I'm not frustrated by my own lack of prosperity... I'm frustrated at the systemic and rationalized exploitation of the majority.

------------------------------------------------

On the rich/poor gap:

The distinction is between rich & wealthy.

You six figure folks are rich... the guy who signs your check... is wealthy.

The rich/poor will suffer.

But the wealthy never do.

You might be surprised how many millionaires were created by the Great Depression.

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'N')othing could be sweeter than the prospect of twenty more years of slow steady growth, stability and status quo. Prove all those doom&gloomers wrong and life will be great. Someday they'll have problems, but just not yet not here. There are some maybe with envy problems but not me; life's cozy. All I could ask for is nothing changes. happiness is the absence of pain.

[mekrob]

I'm not really a doomer completely, but I do see how their view could come true,given international politics. I think there is a good chance for the world to completely go to shit but also a chance (much smaller) that PO could be kept within limits, although that is a pretty long shot. I am a college student, hence I have PLENTY of time to "waste" on the computer and entertaining "extreme" theories. I grew up in a lower middle/upper lower class family, but the way I live at college is about as low as possible for anyone here: no heat, no car, no bus (even though it's free). The only thing I really have is my computer and plenty of food. I got my laptop because of school policy, so it was free as well. Gotta milk the system while it's workin. I try to be as oil free as possible to benefit the world with less pollution and myself with life how it will be like for most in America after the shit hits the fan and how most in the world live right now anyway.

[FossilFool]

Looking at people as economic losers I think is still looking through the view of a pre-peak lense. Like you are better if you went to college than if you work at McDonald's. Didn't understanding Peak Oil make you see that all of that is BS? Great, the economic winners have more expendable income to spend on stuff they "need" and make the problem worse. I spent years of my life in college and would give it all up to have worked at McDonalds and have that time back that I lost to gain the status of a "winner" instead of looked down on as "trailer trash."