[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SinisterBlueCat', 'w')here in the constitution does it discuss corporate welfare?

[Free]

I am lower class, or at least lower middle class, and I am a realist/pessimist, some would say doomer.

I was never materialistically oriented nor jealous of people who are better off, and other than having no debt (which I don't have) have no further financial goals in life. I live very comfortably and have everything I need and want.

But I have no illusions that my easy life is a byproduct of cheap energy and cheap imported labor, and that this will come to an end. I probably will have a lot harder time once TSHTF. It would be very stupid to expect that the ones who are more wealthy will have more problems to cope with a crisis.

In fact I will have to make decisions very soon that will demand me to put my money were my mouth is, and either to decide if I will keep enjoying my life and expect that at least a few more years the music will keep playing, or if I should prepare at least in a way that I won't be caught with my pants totally down in a serious recession.

[Tyler_JC]

My family is upper middle class (depending on your definition I guess).

Paying the bills is not an all consuming problem so there is extra time to worry about more global problems.

The Proletariat do not have time to worry about Peak Oil or geopolitics. They only have time for knee-jerk emotional responses to words like "Abortion" and "Gay Marriage". There may be disgust in response to "Corporate Welfare" and "Cutting benefits". But they just don't have the time, energy, or money to change things.

Real changes occurs only when the middle/upper middle classes get their numbers behind an issue. The rich are generally spokespeople for issues and fund most of the campaigns but they are mostly unsuccessful in collecting votes by themselves.

And most doomer's are not economic losers. They had the free time to develope Peak Oil Theory in their heads. Economic losers generally can't do that. What makes them doomers (in life, not just our energy situation) is current insecurity. Maybe they are worried about losing their middle class lifestyle.

But for most of the people who have been economic losers since day one, they just don't have the education to fully grasp PO Theory. Or if they do, they use their time to feed themselves rather than worry about some abstract future scenario.

But what do I know...

[PrairieMule]

Maybe its not about who is a winner or a loser in life. Maybe the question should be will you still be one of life's winners when cheap abundant oil becomes neither cheap nor abundant. It could also be about both winners and wannabes trying to make a image through over the top consumerism built on a fragile foundation of creative financing.

[Ludi]

I don't know more than a couple of people who might fit the apparent usual definition of "doomer" here at PO.com. The name gets thrown around a lot, but I don't know who is being referred to.

I consider myself a "moderate" and I'm happier with my life every day.

I do sometimes get angry in conversation here, though....

[dbarberic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ancien_Opus', 'C')onsidering that Bill Gates was seen reading "Twilight in the Desert" and is now very interested in our energy situation. Richard Rainwater, Henry Groeppe, Matt Simmons, Boone Pickens and of course the likes of Warren Buffet lead me to believe that the "economic winners" who are most concerned about our energy future.

[jaws]

Doomers aren't just current economic losers, they will always be economic losers because they don't believe there is any hope to achieve success in any way. They will thus never pursue success.

[Ludi]

Who are these people, jaws, and how do you know so much about them?

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', ':')!:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbarberic', 'I') get the sense that some doomers (not all), are really angry people. It is almost as if they are so disenfranchised with their current lot in life that they want to massive upheaval and social change because they believe that this is their current opportunity to come out ahead.

It seems like they rage against those who have achieved in our current society by disparaging every icon of economic/social success in America today.

I’m wondering if the “bitter” doomer subset is currently society’s economic losers, who are looking forward to a petroleum collapse because they believe that in the end, they will become the winners and they will get a certain joy in watching society’s current winners fail and turn to them for direction and leadership or die off.

Thoughts?

[o2ny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', 'M')ost of us doomers are angry because for every day of every year of our life we have seen utter fucking morons like you parade their conspicuous consumption lifestyles in front of us in an attempt at overcompensating for your

a) short penis
b) lack of personality
c) lack of intellect
or d) all of the above

Just because you have mortaged your soul to the devil to support a ridiculous lifestyle does not consitute 'success.' Mostly what it does is demonstrate your total ignorance - about the planet, for the people around you, even ignorance of your own life.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'D')oomers aren't just current economic losers, they will always be economic losers because they don't believe there is any hope to achieve success in any way. They will thus never pursue success.

[dbarberic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('o2ny', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', 'S')orry you're pissed, but how do you know he does these things? I don't see anywhere in his post where he talks about any 'celebration of the consumerist lifestyle' that you have callously pinned on him. I think it's a thoughtful question he's posing, and you're actually directly answering the question with your show of rage.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'D')oomers aren't just current economic losers, they will always be economic losers because they don't believe there is any hope to achieve success in any way. They will thus never pursue success.

[Schneider]

Wow kochevnik !

Talk about someone hammering his state of mind with a baseball bat ..Sometimes,i feel the same but most of the time i feel great pity for thoses not aware of the issue ..!

For them,when the time will come,it will be like waking up from the a dream and throw out in the cold and dark reality !

Personnaly,right now i put myself in the economic losers..I have a student dept from the IT field for a job i only had for some months then been throwed like a garbage bag over a cliff !

I'm a hard working and frugal man,so i'm paying my dept off rapidly by making choices like living with two others people (family related) and don't even try to get a girlfriend since all my energy and money is focused to pay my dept back..all this while buying for more than a thousand dollars of books on strategic knowledges,for this,i had to make a lot of sacrifices.. sad,but necessary..!

If it was not from peak oil,i would have been in a nice situation after paying off my dept since i know to be able to save a lot of money from my income,even if he's far to be close from a middle class one ! But since i know for peak oil (take note that i don't state i "believe" in it),i now have the obligation to reach some goals a lot faster than previously thought ...

Theses goals were to make my life the less dependant from money for my most vital needs..meaning shelter,water and food..the rest can be deal in time ! I lived too much in poverty to not enjoy to reach theses simple,but hard to achieve,goals..

As for the statement the economics losers want to have the upper hand after the decline begin,here my point of view :

I never asked anything to society,but to let me alone and in peace..i'm sick to live in a economic system where everything is build to not last and to keep the people from being as independant as possible !

Yes,i'm very pissed..but not because i think i'm a economic "loser" wanting to get the meaningless power to make anything i want by and from the other members of my species,but because i perfectly understand that PeakOil mean i won't let be in peace by the very people who unlike me,never had the idea to just stop running then watch around them to understand the insanity of this destructive way of living !

I know i'll be asked for help or to save them from their own lack of preparedness over something who was obviously coming..all this probably even by force,at my own expense !

For me,life is a f*cking bitch..but i got to live with her,just hope she won't screw me up...

Schneider
French-Canadian

[jaws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'W')ell that's an interesting perspective jaws. If I were to name the top doomers on this site: Myself, Jato, Aaron, Jack, Montequest....I doubt any of us is in the top 5% income wise, but I would guess we're all at least middle class.

[Liamj]

Are some Doomers, life’s current economic losers?
Fairly likely, not withstanding the testimonies above which suggest few are.

Are some Doomers, life’s current economic winners?
Very probably, given the prerequisites of leisure, IT hardware and connectivity, literacy, &? numeracy. And the testimonies above. So what?


Isn't it about time those who reflexively use the term doomer defined what and who is a doomer?

To me the doomers are those who can see no problem with oil depletion, nuclear weapons in iraq+afghanistan+bosnia, persistant organic pollutants, fishery collapse, water table pollution, ...
Their stupidity leads inexorably to doom. Specop is the biggest doomer here.

[MicroHydro]

For my part, I expect the world standard of living, and ultimately the population, to drop considerably in coming decades. I guess that makes me a global doomer.

Personally, I have done so well with strategic relocation, energy investments, and precious metals investments, that I will as well prepared for whatever comes as anyone possibly could be. Maybe the bird flu will get me, but I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it.

[threadbear]

DBarberic, Anyone who criticizes run away consumption is just jealous? What cloistered prep school did you just step out of? Don't mistake genuine contempt and disdain for envy, or jealousy.

[dissimulo]

There appears to be a misconception that doomers hope for destruction of the current order, after which the playing field would be somehow leveled.

I think it would be fair to say I am a doomer. I see looming problems that I think we are not likely to solve. I think those problems will result in a reduced standard of living for some and a direct threat to life for others.

I don't look forward to it - not even a little bit. (I had been prepared to retire this year, but I have set those plans aside to increase my nest egg, given the uncertainty of the future.) But I am preparing to make the best of it.

I am quite well off economically and my knowledge of peak oil has helped me to invest in such a way that my financial situation continues to improve (at least for now).

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', 'W')hat kind of future do you expect for yourself?