[Jenab6]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', '[')b]Omnitir,

One other thing to consider.

We currently can't/don't even use the space energy that bombards the earth every day for free in an economically viable way. Solar energy, more powerful than anything we can dream up thus far, plays almost no role whatsoever in our energy needs, and we don't pay anything for it. With this in mind, what makes you feel so certain that going to space, which costs money and burns up quite a bit of energy, is the answer to our prayers?

[lakeweb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', 'R')eplacing oil with solar power would require a solar panel array with an area (kept normal to the sun) the size of the state of Utah. And that's just for the steady state part of the system....

[grabby]

what would a solar panel 53 miles on a side cost to produce?


___________-
part two:


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')he ruling class will be fine, they don't need to worry, so why should they? It is up to us, the regular guys, to deal with the situation. Nobody is going to save our butts for us.

[grabby]

Corrected post , misread tribal and class...

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('grabby', 'T')hroughout history the trouble really started when the "regular guys" turned on the "ruler guys" that is the scenario to try and avoid.

the "ruler guys" never end up as good as the "regular" guys.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('grabby', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DefiledEngine', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Thousands, possibly tens of thousands.

[joewp]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', 'M')odest space development has the potential to solve virtually every single problem we face.

[JustinFrankl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joewp', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', 'M')odest space development has the potential to solve virtually every single problem we face.

[DefiledEngine]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')That's just anthropologically false. Tribal societies do not have a ruling class. Most human societies have been tribal. Otherwise it has just been a smattering of civilizations, most of which have collapsed.

[JustinFrankl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DefiledEngine', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')That's just anthropologically false. Tribal societies do not have a ruling class. Most human societies have been tribal. Otherwise it has just been a smattering of civilizations, most of which have collapsed.

[Ludi]

"Tribe: A political organizational term that refers to a group of people who share territory, language, cultural history, and usually some form of kinship relationship. Bands join together to form a tribe. Tribes usually did not live together year round because of supply concerns, but there are of course exceptions. Tribal levels do not usually have an official leader. Bands join together to celebrate something, recognize "groupness" like a family reunion, or deal with an external crisis. Temporary leaders will be elected because of their skills to deal with a particular situation, but they normally have no authority over anyone. They can suggest and are almost always listened to, but certainly don't have to be. Many times the federal government mistakenly assumed a tribal leader had authority when he did not. "

http://mil.citrus.cc.ca.us/cat1courses/ ... bulary.htm

I'd be happy to supply loads of additional references should you require them, however, I'm convinced you're capable of learning about anthropolgy on your own.

[jdmartin]

Hey Ludi,

I must digress from this thread for a moment to say that I read your explanation for your signature (doggie-dog), and I just gotta say that I love it. What could be better than a bunch of cuddly, wiggling puppies?

[malcomatic_51]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')he ruling class will be fine, they don't need to worry, so why should they? It is up to us, the regular guys, to deal with the situation. Nobody is going to save our butts for us.

[UnpreparedMF]

So, are you saying that their dogma is being run over by our karma?

[savethehumans]

Energy Bulletin had a link to an interesting guest editorial in The Roanoke Times. (Click on Feb. 4 Peak Oil, it's the first story there, called "What If Calamity Were Predictable?") This excerpt gave me pause, and seems to fit in with this thread:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ote here that while we're really good with technology, technology and energy are different things, and we can't create more energy with technology. The Hirsch Report, commissioned by the U.S. Department of Energy in February 2005, states, "...without timely mitigation, the economic, social and political costs will be unprecedented."

Our society is stumbling with obliviousness and nonchalance into a new and horrible epoch.

Selling impending scarcity to a complacent and entitled populace--when the Dow exceeds 11,000, Boeing just set a yearly record for airplane sales, and the stores and service stations are full--is as tough as selling an impending Category 5 hurricane to a sleeping "Big Easy." Yet, history has shown that when complex societies have collapsed, they have done so quickly and unexpectedly. Why would ours be immune or different?

[JAGUAR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'd')uke3522 - Ok folks. I have been reading up on Kuwait oil reserves, Iran cutting production, troubles in Nigeria, and the Venezuelans that just plain don’t like us.

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

As addicted as the United States may be to oil, the oil producers, especially Saudi Arabia and Iran, are even more addicted to continue U.S. oil consumption.

Very true, which is the reason they are pumping like mad-men and are set to cause off the chart depletion rates. As you say I don't think they have a choice though.

[pup55]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s addicted as the United States may be to oil, the oil producers, especially Saudi Arabia and Iran, are even more addicted to continue U.S. oil consumption.