[ALBY]

I am pro abortion, pro death penalty, pro assisted suicide and pro war against the islamowhacko's.

overall, i would characterize myself as pro death. you can only come to this position once you realize that there are worse things in life than death.

[0mar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')"Human life begins when it first appears as a determined embodied process. This embodied process, from the outset, has an active capacity to be manifest in human ways. Thus, we speak not of a potential human, but of a human with potential.

Fertilization is the usual event that gives rise to a human organism in nature. It is a moment when a distinct embodied process appears that has the active capacity to develop along a human trajectory."

Seems pretty clear cut to me. Fertilization beginslife, ourfounding documents protect the right to life.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')"Human life begins when it first appears as a determined embodied process. This embodied process, from the outset, has an active capacity to be manifest in human ways. Thus, we speak not of a potential human, but of a human with potential.

Fertilization is the usual event that gives rise to a human organism in nature. It is a moment when a distinct embodied process appears that has the active capacity to develop along a human trajectory."

Seems pretty clear cut to me. Fertilization beginslife, ourfounding documents protect the right to life.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')"Human life begins when it first appears as a determined embodied process. This embodied process, from the outset, has an active capacity to be manifest in human ways. Thus, we speak not of a potential human, but of a human with potential.

Fertilization is the usual event that gives rise to a human organism in nature. It is a moment when a distinct embodied process appears that has the active capacity to develop along a human trajectory."

Seems pretty clear cut to me. Fertilization beginslife, ourfounding documents protect the right to life.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')"Human life begins when it first appears as a determined embodied process. This embodied process, from the outset, has an active capacity to be manifest in human ways. Thus, we speak not of a potential human, but of a human with potential.

Fertilization is the usual event that gives rise to a human organism in nature. It is a moment when a distinct embodied process appears that has the active capacity to develop along a human trajectory."

Seems pretty clear cut to me. Fertilization beginslife, ourfounding documents protect the right to life.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'A') comedy of errors here. By over the top I mean leaving newborns to die of exposure. As for abortion, you can look at it in moral terms and see a problem, sure. But it's a fact, law of the land, and what I was talking about is trying to find the most humane compromise. To me it would be something like finding out when a fetus feels pain. Now Omar might say fuck the fetus' pain, kill it or keep your dick wrapped up, responsibility, but he's just ahead of his time.

[PenultimateManStanding]

If they made me Emperor, like in Barbara's old thread, I would make some other changes: if the woman's fetus is undeveloped enough to be abortable then by decree of the Emperor she may not need and will not recieve nor be required to seek counseling; it is to be available if she requests it. She need not notify anyone. It should be easy and efficient and readily available and her privacy shall be respected. If the fetus is too old to abort, then by decree of the Emperor, she shall not abort.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'O')na side note I ask you this, do you support the death penalty?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '
')Oh, and I couldn't agree more with PMS' thoughts, expressed above.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')here may be no better form of government than enlightened despotism. The trouble has always been that the despots tend to go crazy.

[justgas]

The abortion debate is not really about choice but about who gets to make the choice. 75% of all conceptions end in miscarriage. The standard line is that these embryos were not viable, but that is not the truth. Some of these miscarries are due to insufficient hormones or microclots in the placenta. Both of these conditions are treatable. However it not cost effective because it for most of us it is easier and cheaper just to try again. A few years ago the standard procedure called for 3 medically confirmed miscarriages before genetic testing or hormone studies would be done. A very practical approach but certainly not a "cherish every life" approach.

So why don't so-called "conservatives" have a similar approach to abortion? What is the state's interest in requiring women to continue unwanted pregancies? Many fetal defects are only confirmed late in the second trimester. (I think it would be much better to identify them in the first trimester.) Babies with birth defects, even a "minor" one like a cleft palate, have large social and medical expenses.

Population pressure is one of the under-acknowledged drivers of peak oil and geopolitical instability. We certainly don't want to set up death camps or fail to prepare for a lethal virus to take care of our population problem. On the other hand, it is the height of stupidity to force women to have children, especially disabled children, that they do not want. If we truly cherished every life why are we not working to provide the political, medical and economic structure that would make starvation, birth defects and under education rare. The actions of most politicians says that they are more concerned about preserving the status quo and the priviledges of the elite than cherishing even human life let alone cherishing life in general.

Deeds speak louder than words. My biggest problem with Alito is that he doesn't seem to have a problem with lying. He says now that he was "exaggerating" on earlier job applications. When he ruled in favor of a Pennsylvania law requiring women to notify her husband before obtaining an abortion, he justify this by saying that those women for whom this would be a problem (missing spouse or abusive spouse) could easily evade this requirement: ie lie. What kind of person supports a law that might require others to lie to protect their lives? Don't believe a word he says, beware of his actions.

[NevadaGhosts]

US Justice Department obtains Internet Users' Search Records
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ederal investigators have obtained potentially billions of Internet search requests made by users of major websites run by Yahoo Inc., Microsoft Corp. and America Online Inc., raising concerns about how the massive data trove will be used.
Under a section of the Patriot Act expanding the use of so-called national security letters, companies such as Google can be asked to turn over potentially useful data - even about people who aren't suspected of wrongdoing - while being barred from disclosing those requests.

But no previous case is known to have involved such a wide range of data.
"Their demand for information overreaches," said Nicole Wong, Google's associate general counsel. "We had lengthy discussions with them to try to resolve this but were not able to, and we intend to resist their motion vigorously."

[DomusAlbion]

Alito's nomination has moved on to the Senate for approval.

[SinisterBlueCat]

of course he is, and he will be confirmed...which is why W was running around yesterday telling opponents of abortion their views would eventually prevail and urged them to work to convince more Americans of "the rightness of our cause." and we will prevail, blah, blah blah.

What I do not understand is why. Once they are born, he does not give a rat's ass about them anymore...especially if they are lower class, so why bother with getting them here in the first place?

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SinisterBlueCat', 'O')nce they are born, he does not give a rat's ass about them anymore...especially if they are lower class, so why bother with getting them here in the first place?

[highlander]

Seems like TPTB have won. Even a forum like this gets sidetracked into a debate on Roe v Wade. The issue with Alito is his views on the executive branch of the gov't. This thread needs to be merged with the one on US dictatorship.

[PrairieMule]

EB, PMS, & SBC,

First, I got to say were tight and yall' are cool. This case I have to stand firm on the line. First I'll take my baptist hat off and speak as a father who has created life and seen it leave by miscarrage . Once you have created life your perspective towards it changes forever. I tell you this to say that righties do not care may be true for some but not for all. I love children and babies, white,black, yellow, brown. I could have a whole army of them if I had the money and energy. Next to harming a woman or speaking to her in a ungentlemanly way-Nothing in the world will rile my wrath someone harming a child.

When I got out of college I did big brothers/big sisters and mentored a boy named Zac for three years who was on the wrong track. Also every other month I mentor new Dads at the pregnancy advocacy center. Neither will solve the problem but I say throwing condoms and abortions doesn't solve it either.

It has been said that prolife folks do not care about the kid after birth and point to education, poverty, and other issues and they would be rightfully so to say that. I say with equal measure that Planned Parenthood does not truly take care of a woman's complete needs after an abortion.
I say this as a husband of a woman who had a abortion in college. An abortion brings with it a hell of a lot emotional baggage that gets carried through out life of a woman and her future husband must deal with.

[SinisterBlueCat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', 'S')eems like TPTB have won. Even a forum like this gets sidetracked into a debate on Roe v Wade. The issue with Alito is his views on the executive branch of the gov't. This thread needs to be merged with the one on US dictatorship.

[SinisterBlueCat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', '
')
It has been said that prolife folks do not care about the kid after birth and point to education, poverty, and other issues and they would be rightfully so to say that. I say with equal measure that Planned Parenthood does not truly take care of a woman's complete needs after an abortion.
I say this as a husband of a woman who had a abortion in college. An abortion brings with it a hell of a lot emotional baggage that gets carried through out life of a woman and her future husband must deal with.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'I')t has been said that prolife folks do not care about the kid after birth and point to education, poverty, and other issues and they would be rightfully so to say that. I say with equal measure that Planned Parenthood does not truly take care of a woman's complete needs after an abortion.
I say this as a husband of a woman who had a abortion in college. An abortion brings with it a hell of a lot emotional baggage that gets carried through out life of a woman and her future husband must deal with.