[tawharanui]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]It's better to green your diet than your car
17 December 2005

THINKING of helping the planet by buying an eco-friendly car? You could do more by going vegan, say Gidon Eshel and Pamela Martin of the University of Chicago.

They compared the amount of fossil fuel needed to cultivate and process various foods, including running agricultural machinery, providing food for livestock and irrigating crops. They also factored in emissions of methane and nitrous oxide produced by cows, sheep and manure treatment.

The typical US diet, about 28 per cent of which comes from animal sources, generates the equivalent of nearly 1.5 tonnes more carbon dioxide per person per year than a vegan diet with the same number of calories, say the researchers, who presented their results at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco last week.

By comparison, the difference in annual emissions between driving a typical saloon car and a hybrid car, which runs off a rechargeable battery and gasoline, is just over 1 tonne. If you don't want to go vegan, choosing less-processed animal products and poultry instead of red meat can help reduce the greenhouse load.

From issue 2530 of New Scientist magazine, 17 December 2005, page 19

[Sgs-Cruz]

Yeah, but sitting behind the wheel of a car isn't nearly as delicious as a rare Angus steak, rubbed with kosher salt, pepper, and dillseed two hours before it's tossed on an olive-oil brushed grill for four minutes a side.

Damn, now I'm hungry

[The_Virginian]

Dude am I invited? Let's char some mamal flesh, drink some firewater, and bang our respective ladies in hopes of adding some forward momentum to our gene pools.

[coyote]

Interesting article, and it makes perfect sense... it takes a lot of pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef. We're all talking about EROEI around here -- well, how about the EROEI of beef versus veggies and grains? If veggies and grains are the light sweet crude in that scale, then beef would be the tar sands...

And by the way, welcome to the boards tawharanui! There's plenty of energetic discussion (pun semi-intended), opposing experts, passionate rhetoric, dirty fighting and downright mud-slinging -- it's a great group! Welcome!

[elroy]

Vegan? And give up on chicken sateh ? No thanks.

[Schneider]

Damn,when i think that i wanted to make load of pemmican..it take quite a lot of meat to make it (22lbs to make 5 kg of pemmican,witch is made of 50% of dried lean meat and 50% of rendered fat)..

Wonder what is the EROEI of deers !


[align=center]=====WARNING, PEOPLE SCARED OF BUGS SHOULD GO AWAY=====[/align]
[align=center][sup](But since it took me a while to write this,reading it anyway would be nice ^_^)[/align][/sup]

Anyway,total vegan diet is unpratical..We have evolved away from most of the primates because we began to eat "meat" (in fact,the first thing we hate was fat from bones marrow) !

Now,to get most of our proteins and calories without using carbohydrates from grains,beans and potatoes (witch,by the way are harmfull for the human body,more people should read about hunter-gatherer diet,we need to get most of our calories from fat then a smaller part come from proteins,then the rest),it shoud be good to know that the ancestor of most primates was a insectivorous !

Yes,we should eat more insects,here why :

The ancestor of primates was a insectivorous..then,with evolution,primates began to eat more fruits and vegetables ( evolution never go foward with abolishing complete tables of food,but rather by adding news sources of food)..but when the great forests began to withdraw (because of a slow global climate change) to let place to the savana,some primates got less and less place and sources of food..one day,some of them didn't have much choices,they needed to adapt and go in the savana,where most of the food is a lot of grass eaters !

Of course,our ancestors have competed with others species to get it (witch is why the first thing they eated was bones marrow,it was mostly what was left from others predators,and with this highly concentrated source of calories ans OMEGA-3,our brain develloped over the time) and a long evolution to adapt to meat and fat happened,while keeping the habits to eat bugs,fruits and vegetables...

Of course,for most people in the ages,it was more efficient to run after big beasts with lot of fat and meat to get their proteins and calories intakes than run to get a lot of small bugs to get the same calories,proteins,lipids and glucids amounts ! But the fact still is we are first,bugs eaters and evolution is a loooong process..another interesting thing is that like fats,all proteins aren't egals with each others,less proteins from bugs are needed than from animals...

Even today,in a lot of places around the world there is still people eating liberally bugs..By this,you can see that we idealy should eat a lot of bugs,some fruits,vegetables and meat from animals and fish as a addition !

Today,we know how to raise efficiently insects in a way possible for almost every homesteads,families or communities to make most or totaly their proteins intake really cheaply (even possible in the third wolrd) ,without the help (!) of the great industrials food producers and food distributors !

To raise enough insects to supply the protein needs in the form of crickets for a single man only require around more or less 1 m²..yes..you have read it well..one single square meter ! A small greenhouse well be needed for the needs of a family..

This is of course, only a exemple ! But for sure,the speed of breeding of most insects is FAST..faster than any mammals on Earth (crickets ,for exemple have a life cycle of ~ one month,quick meals ) and another important factor is that their "EROEI" is far greater than beef or most common mammals..!

In hope this little summary was a mind opening one...


Schneider
French-Canadian

[Schneider]

And yes,i can already hear some of you screaming YOU FIRST !

I guess that for to be able to reach some sort of self-sufficiency with only a small piece of land,some sacrifices will be needed...

Another nice thing about most bugs is that it is not necessarly needed to feed them with food produced for humans..a new way to recycle organic wastes !?

Schneider
French-Canadian

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schneider', 'i')t shoud be good to know that the ancestor of most primates was a insectivorous !

[nocar]

Well, let's get back to the comparison between a vegan diet and cars.

The article said the vegan consumes 1.5 tonnes of CO2 less per year, that corresponds to about 750 litres of petrol/gasoline/diesel. Or 14.4 litres per week (less that 4 gallons/week for americans). Per person. That means 70-200 km/week, depending on how thirsty your car is.

So if a person with normal western meat-eating habits uses 14 litres less gasoline per week than a vegan with normal western driving habits the meat-eater is better for the environment.

And - if the meat-eater gives up her/his car entirely, she/he also uses less material that goes into the car, which has produced quite a lot of CO2 in its production. Perhaps she/he can plant trees or let the weeds grow in the former driveway and let them eat some CO2.

Few people realize that a car that is used for getting to work and errands and vacations (at times when most people make errands and have vacations), typically need 3-4 different parking spots=asphalt spaces that take room from greenery (one at home, one at work, a share of places at errand places, a share at summer vacation places, a share at winter vacation places, a share of places at hospitals etc. Most parking lots are empty most of the time if you consider the whole year around the clock.).

The article is quite right - switching to an "eco-friendly" car is a feeble measure. Getting rid of your car is something else.

I will keep eating meat and fish. And veggies and grains. But I will avoid the long distance varieties. And I welcome the weeds on my driveway.

nocar

[nocar]

Well, let's get back to the comparison between a vegan diet and cars.

The article said the vegan consumes 1.5 tonnes of CO2 less per year, that corresponds to about 750 litres of petrol/gasoline/diesel. Or 14.4 litres per week (less that 4 gallons/week for americans). Per person. That means 70-200 km/week, depending on how thirsty your car is.

So if a person with normal western meat-eating habits uses 14 litres less gasoline per week than a vegan with normal western driving habits the meat-eater is better for the environment.

And - if the meat-eater gives up her/his car entirely, she/he also uses less material that goes into the car, which has produced quite a lot of CO2 in its production. Perhaps she/he can plant trees or let the weeds grow in the former driveway and let them eat some CO2.

Few people realize that a car that is used for getting to work and errands and vacations (at times when most people make errands and have vacations), typically need 3-4 different parking spots=asphalt spaces that take room from greenery (one at home, one at work, a share of places at errand places, a share at summer vacation places, a share at winter vacation places, a share of places at hospitals etc. Most parking lots are empty most of the time if you consider the whole year around the clock.).

The article is quite right - switching to an "eco-friendly" car is a feeble measure. Getting rid of your car is something else.

I will keep eating meat and fish. And veggies and grains. But I will avoid the long distance varieties. And I welcome the weeds on my driveway.

nocar

[Schneider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('tinosorb', ' ')How vile sounding. I kind of feel sorry for the people who didn't inherit the "animal meat and fat is repulsive" gene. The world would be a much cleaner and better place. I don't understand why so many accept that cars can be polluting but refuse to acknowledge the impacts of their diets.

[The_Virginian]

Being an OMNIvore gives you an edge in survival....

If green is "natural" then naturaly I will eat animal meat.

[dub_scratch]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nocar', '
')
So if a person with normal western meat-eating habits uses 14 litres less gasoline per week than a vegan with normal western driving habits the meat-eater is better for the environment...............


The article is quite right - switching to an "eco-friendly" car is a feeble measure. Getting rid of your car is something else.

I will keep eating meat and fish. And veggies and grains. But I will avoid the long distance varieties. And I welcome the weeds on my driveway.

nocar

[coyote]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dub_scratch', 'T')he fact of the matter is the marginal difference between the best and worse cars is not much...

[foodnotlawns]

How about if I feed the bugs to my chickens?

Also, I grow cover crops, and when it's time to kill 'em, I'll put a temporary pen around them and set the bunnies loose.

The point is, if you raise the animals at your house, it can't be too bad of an EROI, especially if you feed them at least partly from your own property.

Also, animals are a local source of fertilizer. I get horse manure from a horse farm, and it's a real pain in the neck. I'd rather just get chicken litter from the chicken and rabbit pen on a regular basis. Chicken/bunny litter is basically hay that is very liberally soaked in their manure.

The animals are almost worth keeping even without the meat, but the meat is definitely a big bonus.

[dub_scratch]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dub_scratch', 'T')he fact of the matter is the marginal difference between the best and worse cars is not much...

[The_Virginian]

"To raise enough insects to supply the protein needs in the form of crickets for a single man only require around more or less 1 m²..yes..you have read it well..one single square meter ! A small greenhouse well be needed for the needs of a family.. "

Schneider,do you have a source for that exciting info. you could post?

This is Great news, many grasshoppers and Locust are Kosher. Locust on the grill was an old Morrocan and Yeminite fav. I bet you could fry them in ghee...mmm