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Book: "Petrodollar Warfare" by William R. Clark

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Re: 'Petrodollar Warfare' William R. Clark

Unread postby lakeweb » Fri 30 Dec 2005, 14:59:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lakeweb', '(')as well as all the other stuff)

I don't see the big deal in the Euro. We sneeze and they still catch cold. Just look at how their economic activity lags ours. Take Germany out of the mix and what is left looks like a third world country.


That is because the petrodollar system allows the US to hide its poverty. I think you really need to visit any major city and more then one in the US to see how third world America really is. Even the homes in the post-WWII suburbs are starting to look like run down.


Hi Anonymous,
Here is something I posted on another thread. Maybe we can take it from there...

Henry Liu on dollar hegemony

Best, Dan.
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Re: 'Petrodollar Warfare' William R. Clark

Unread postby Euric » Sat 31 Dec 2005, 00:46:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lakeweb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lakeweb', '(')as well as all the other stuff)

I don't see the big deal in the Euro. We sneeze and they still catch cold. Just look at how their economic activity lags ours. Take Germany out of the mix and what is left looks like a third world country.


That is because the petrodollar system allows the US to hide its poverty. I think you really need to visit any major city and more then one in the US to see how third world America really is. Even the homes in the post-WWII suburbs are starting to look like run down.


Hi Anonymous


Actually I'm Euric. For some reason I wasn't signed in.
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Re: 'Petrodollar Warfare' William R. Clark

Unread postby Euric » Sat 31 Dec 2005, 11:14:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lakeweb', '
')
Here is something I posted on another thread. Maybe we can take it from there...

Henry Liu on dollar hegemony

Best, Dan.


I have read some of Henry C.K. Liu's stuff before and it appears he speaks from both sides of his mouth. In this case, he seems to think that since the dollar is so wide spread it is not possible for the euro or any currency to upset this situation. Well, it often occurs that things that aren't suppose to happen usually do.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he euro in its current form can never replace the dollar. With the
exception of some minor African states, there is no precedent in history
where a monetary union preceded a political union. Already in Italy
cries to restore the lira are increasingly vocal. But the main reason is
that there is not enough euro in circulation to replace the dollar and
the ECB is not about to print more euro than its inflation-aversed
ideology would permit.


Nonsense! Who is saying the euro is going to replace the dollar? the euro isn't looking to replace the dollar nor is anybody out there trying to replace the dollar with the euro. Whoever is saying that doesn't know what they are talking about.

What is being said is that the euro and the dollar are going to "share" hegemony. Oil will not go completely to euros, just a share of it. world Central Banks are not going to dump all of their dollars, just some. They all want to re-balance so that they have a better mixture. OPEC originally wanted to have a basket of currencies, not one, to price oil in. The US insisted on the dollar only. Everyone now knows this was a bad decision and there is a movement to go back to the original plan. The euro will eventually be one of many currencies used to buy and sell not only oil but other commodities. The creation of the euro was designed as the first step to break the dollar hold. Once free of the dollar, the world can begin to set up a currency basket to buy and sell commodities, thus forcing national economies to compete fairly in the world markets.

It is the fiat nature of modern currencies that makes it possible to have a currency union without a political union. The value of the euro and dollar are not in the control of governments but by forces outside their nations. Since they don't back their currencies with gold the currency union will work. If it would be backed with gold, nations in the currency union would fight over how much gold from their treasuries they would have to contribute to the stability of the currency. Some may think others will use a currency union to steal gold from each other. Someone always feels cheated, so without a political union these these types of currency unions fall apart. Fiat currencies don't follow the same rules as currencies backed by something of value. Only old fashioned and out of date thinking would insist it is so.

As for the lira, there was some noise being made in early summer by members of the Italian northern League. This coincidentally occurred after the referendum rejections in late May and ended in early July at the time of the London bombings. I personally think the US was behind the Northern League anti-euro campaign and also the media reports of the possibility of a euro collapse during that time period. The Northern League wanted to not only reinstall the old lira, but to fixed its exchange rate to the US dollar. That in itself should tell you something at who is behind the attempts to collapse the euro. If the US could destroy the euro they would not have to invade or bomb Iran to prevent a IOB from using it. The anti-euro rhetoric at that time ended with the bombings in London. I believe the bombings were a warning to the US and UK financial interests to leave the euro alone.

To end the nostalgia for former currencies, the fixed exchange rate between the euro and the old currencies must be ended. The old currencies should be depreciated in value a given percentage per year until they are worthless. It is not possible for the old currencies to still have the same value they once did. If people saw that the old currencies are in fact worthless, the nostalgia will end.

Going back to the old currencies would create a multitude of problems. I'm sure it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what they will be.

As for their not being enough euros in circulation, that is a very, very moot issue. This is the 21-st century, not the 18-th. There doesn't have to be oodles of paper currency in circulation. We are moving or at least suppose to be moving to a more cashless society. You will also note that there are not as many paper dollars in circulation to meet the needs of the world's business.

Much of the money in circulation is electronic. just numbers passed from one computer to another. I surprised Henry Liu doesn't know this and would make such an ignorant comment. the ECB doesn't need to print more euros, just authorize the use of the euro for oil or commodity transactions and create the money electronically as the US does with the dollar. Maybe they do need to increase the cash supply a percentage of what is electronically in circulation, and they did it during the past year. The Iranians wanted to open their bourse in March 2005 but were delayed by one year. This may be an agreement with the ECB not to open the bourse until the ECB can prepare the needed changes to its systems to accept the huge influx of euro transactions when oil sales would be denominated in euros. Software has to be adapted to such a change.

Printing or creating more euros would not affect inflation if it is done to meet the demand for more euros from outside the Eurozone. If it was done to increase the money supply without a real need such as to finance commodity sales, then inflation would result. But again, printing or creating more money that is accepted as a reserve currency would not affect inflation in the same manner if the currency was not accepted as a reserve currency. If Venezuela were to over print Bolivars, there would be inflation as Bolivars is not a reserve currency. A reserve currency as long as it has the faith of the Central Banks will always have value. Only when the faith is lost is the value lost too and inflation rises.



$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he prospect of the dollar going up or down against other major currencies poses no threat dollar hegemony. The threat can only come from changes in the terms of trade. It is to the advantage of exporting economies to be paid in their own currencies and it is to the advantage of importing economies to pay in their own currencies. The US can pay for its imports and deficits in dollars because of dollar hegemony. OPEC countries cannot demand payment in their own currencies because there is no OPEC currency and the component currencies are all tied to the dollar and not gold. There is talk about a gold dinar but, like the euro, there is not enough gold to replace the dollar unless gold goes to $30K per ounce. All the talk of a dollar crashing is only Chicken Little indication of lack of clear thinking. The dollar has in fact fallen more than 30% from its peak against some currencies, but US asset prices have risen dramatically while the
current account deficit keeps rising. A rising dollar is no longer in the US national interest, because it will bring on domestic deflation.


I don't feel like taking a lot of time to respond to this part, but all i can say if there is no threat to dollar hegemony by the euro, then the US should have no problem sharing its hegemony with the euro. If the US has a problem with sharing its hegemony then the euro is a threat.
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Re: 'Petrodollar Warfare' William R. Clark

Unread postby Colm » Tue 10 Jan 2006, 20:37:47

Hi, I just recently (tonight) picked up on the Iranian Oil Bourse thing, I've spent 2 hours looking through hundreds of sites for a definite solid source on it, OPEC doesn't mention it, no real News site mentions it, trusted economic organisations don't mention it.

In theory, it exists, and is very possible, but I want to know for definite if the Iranians are infact doing it, now I know you all have your quotes from newspapers and novels, but if it is real there MUST be one source out there on the internet that DEFINITELY 100% proves it, is there not a named Iranian Government minister quote? or OPEC comment? or anything like that?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying its existence, but you have to understand, I don't leap onto somebody elses boat just because I dislike their enemies, I stand by my own judgement and belief. That and I am completely tired after waisting my night on this and would prefer the one solid source instead of considering all the arguements made here already.
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Re: 'Petrodollar Warfare' William R. Clark

Unread postby lakeweb » Tue 10 Jan 2006, 20:57:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Colm', 'H')i, I just recently (tonight) picked up on the Iranian Oil Bourse thing, I've spent 2 hours looking through hundreds of sites for a definite solid source on it, OPEC doesn't mention it, no real News site mentions it, trusted economic organisations don't mention it.

In theory, it exists, and is very possible, but I want to know for definite if the Iranians are infact doing it, now I know you all have your quotes from newspapers and novels, but if it is real there MUST be one source out there on the internet that DEFINITELY 100% proves it, is there not a named Iranian Government minister quote? or OPEC comment? or anything like that?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying its existence, but you have to understand, I don't leap onto somebody elses boat just because I dislike their enemies, I stand by my own judgement and belief. That and I am completely tired after waisting my night on this and would prefer the one solid source instead of considering all the arguements made here already.


http://iranianoilbrs.1wr.info/

Use the 'Click here to read more info'.

Best, Dan.
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Re: 'Petrodollar Warfare' William R. Clark

Unread postby Guest » Tue 10 Jan 2006, 23:56:04

Here the latest article on the IOB in english, with statements by a member of Iran's Majis (parliament).

Preparatory measures taken to sell oil in euros

http://www.mehrnews.com/en/NewsDetail.a ... sID=260851

December 2, 2005

TEHRAN, Dec. 2 (MNA) - The Chairman of the Majlis Energy Commission, Kamal Daneshyar said here, on Friday, that preparatory measures have been taken to sell oil in euros instead of dollar, adding that such a measure is quite positive and should be taken as soon as possible.

Speaking to the Persian service of Iranian Students News Agency (ISNA), he went on to say that Iran should at the first phase sell its oil in both Dollar and Euro, and then gradually move toward Euro as the mere source.

As for the probable consequences of such a decision, Daneshyar said that when such a measure is taken, the United States would soon realize that it is not the one who can always inflict economic damages on the Islamic Republic and that Iran can also get even with it.

Daneshyar who also represents Mahshahr in the Majlis noted that prior to this the way was not paved for undertaking such a program, adding that fortunately the present government possesses the necessary management bravery to prepare the ground for taking such a measure.
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Re: 'Petrodollar Warfare' William R. Clark

Unread postby Guest » Wed 11 Jan 2006, 12:38:52

OPEC doesn't mention 'Majlis' or 'Daneshyar' even once, similary, no professional website mentions them either.

Frankly I find this frustrating, if this is real there must be atleast one concrete source out there, its beginning to look like a lot of speculation to me.
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Re: 'Petrodollar Warfare' William R. Clark

Unread postby BrownDog » Fri 20 Jan 2006, 18:49:55

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/edito ... /0119.html

I haven't seen this posted here, and I think this thread is the most appropriate place, since it mentions Petrodollar Warfare specifically. There's a lot to this piece, but it does make the case that the volume to be traded on the Iranian Bourse in particular is insignificant in relation to FOREX volumes, and unlikely to make a difference. (The assumptions are odd to me, like assuming that only Iranian oil would be traded, but I'll defer to someone who knows more than me to evaluate the comparisons).

I hope that Mr. Clark or someone else who knows more than I do can respond with their thoughts.
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Re: 'Petrodollar Warfare' William R. Clark

Unread postby Zentric » Sat 21 Jan 2006, 00:50:04

I think William Clark once explained that selling oil on the euro-denominated Iranian Oil Bourse would effectively "lay down a marker", allowing buyers and sellers to establish a fair price, even if the majority of Euro-based trades would ultimately not go through the IOB.
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Re: 'Petrodollar Warfare' William R. Clark

Unread postby threadbear » Sat 21 Jan 2006, 01:14:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Colm', 'H')i, I just recently (tonight) picked up on the Iranian Oil Bourse thing, I've spent 2 hours looking through hundreds of sites for a definite solid source on it, OPEC doesn't mention it, no real News site mentions it, trusted economic organisations don't mention it.

In theory, it exists, and is very possible, but I want to know for definite if the Iranians are infact doing it, now I know you all have your quotes from newspapers and novels, but if it is real there MUST be one source out there on the internet that DEFINITELY 100% proves it, is there not a named Iranian Government minister quote? or OPEC comment? or anything like that?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying its existence, but you have to understand, I don't leap onto somebody elses boat just because I dislike their enemies, I stand by my own judgement and belief. That and I am completely tired after waisting my night on this and would prefer the one solid source instead of considering all the arguements made here already.


United Press international, Martin Walker, UPI editor:

"The Tehran bourse is listed as an objective for this year in Iran's current five-year plan. The Tehran Times reported July 26 that the final authorizations had been received for the bourse to go ahead. Mohammad Javad Asemipour, the technocrat and former deputy petroleum minister who has been charged with launching the bourse, has made a number of discreet scouting trips to London, Frankfurt, Moscow and Paris. Just after Christmas, he was quoted by the Iran Labor News Agency saying "transparency in oil transactions would be one of the advantages of having such an establishment "(the bourse), and adding that this would "allow dealers access to related information and promote equal trade opportunities."

You'll have to do a google news search for it. I tried to provide link but it was too long.
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Re: 'Petrodollar Warfare' William R. Clark

Unread postby qwanta » Tue 24 Jan 2006, 13:03:19

btw if I heard correctly on last week's show, William Clark is going to be a guest on Jim Puplava's excellent financialsense newshour radio program this Saturday ( Jan 28 ).


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Re: 'Petrodollar Warfare' William R. Clark

Unread postby Petrodollar » Wed 25 Jan 2006, 16:20:06

qwanta,
Yes, you heard correctly. My interview on Financialsense is later today. Wish me luck... ;-)
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Re: 'Petrodollar Warfare' William R. Clark

Unread postby BrownDog » Wed 25 Jan 2006, 17:13:54

I do hope that all goes well. You're doing a great service by going on his show.

Mr. Puplava is not one to beat up his guests, which is one thing that I like about listening to him. He gives them a chance to make their point, yet he seeks divergent opinions, then lets the listener sort out differences among the different views. When he does disagree, it is VERY respectfully.

I look forward to hearing it. Good Luck!
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