[crapattack]

Very interesting post kochevnik, and it does give one pause. I do remember reading Nietzsche's views on hope while I was in University, and had forgotten them of late. Of course, it's a message not likely to be well received in the Prozac society where we're all supposed to think happy thoughts and hope for the best.

It also brings to mind the Buddhist view that desire is the root of all suffering. Desire leads to attachment and attachment to sticky messes (ha ha). Fear and desire are closely linked, of course. On the question of motivation, I think fear is actually more motivating than hope as I think people do most things because they are afraid not to have the outcomes they desire. Stay with me here.

When you understand this in the context of consumerism, that is why the acquiring of the objects doesn't seem fulfilling. She doesn't want the purse so much as she doesn't want to not have the purse. We just have his need to acquire more and more to fill the void, but it never does get satisfied. And the joy in the acquired objects is so fleeting, we just move on to the new thing. It totally makes sense that we're in this whole mess as a culture. We went completely off the rails and marketing (making us fear ourselves without the objects they made us want - i.e.: deodorant) has a lot to do with it. Marketing is literally the business of manufacturing fear and hope. Fear about what the problem is, and hope it can be solved. The only thing you need to do is buy the crap they are foisting on you. I wonder what good 'ol Nietzsche would have to say about it all. Given our economies are so thoroughly based on the delicate play of fear and hope, I think he'd argue we've become completely evil.

[abbcampbell]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crapattack', 'T')he thing about optimism is you never know if it's reality or wish fulfillment. Despite vast amounts of evidence to the contrary there will always be people who just want everything to turn out ok and believe by some miracle of modern teeth whitening it will.

[VinceG_gst1]

excellent post!

[foodnotlawns]

Consumerism is really the root of the problem. It's a lazy way to get to a place called "Contentment," and the irony is that you never get there.

Suppose Contentment is a mountain peak, and there is a trolley car that appears to go there (but never gets there) and there is a rough mountain trail to get there (and you really do get there if you take the trail).

So most people ride the trolley -- forever.

When I'm not slaving at the office, I can say that I am Content -- truly Content, in the Buddhist sense, or like Goethe's Faust said to the Devil, "If I am ever satisfied, take me to Hell right then." If I had made that deal, I'd have been whisked away a long time ago.

There are two things that make me Content. Farm work with hand tools, along with the processing aspect (making beer, making cheese) with friends and family. I have noticed that doing garden work by hand stimulates the mind. Last fall I was planting garlic with my daughter, and she started asking all these theological questions. I am an atheist myself, but I let her think what she wants to think.

So a girl on her bus was insisting that God created us, so she asked, "Well, who created God? And what was there before God? When did it all begin? What was there before there was nothing there?" I was like, "OK, is there some philosopher hotline out there? Because I can't answer these questions."

There was something about dibbling holes to plant garlic cloves under the autumn New England sun that just got that 7 year old brain going. I've seen thsi phenomenon more than once. Another time we discussed consumerism and why myself and mommy have to work so much, and she said, "So they try to get you to buy stuff at Kohl's and Walmart that you don't need to make you work more hours?" Exactly.

Now that's contentment.

The other thing that makes me deeply contented is playing the violin. I am certainly not a "pro" I took it up as an adult, but was lucky enough to take lessons for about a year with a woman who really knew how to teach, and understood how to play. She had gone to the heights of classical string playing, but then she branched into Eastern European folk music and arabic music, playing those exotic Arabic instruments like the yayli tambur. I found her because I like that kind of music too, and it has been my dream to play it -- I love teh harmonic minor.

anyway, I stopped playi8ng for 2 years, and assumed it was over. I was going to spend the rest of my life farming and waiting for Global Dieoff. Then I picked up the violin again, and I still had the skills that the woman had taught me. Hadn't forgot a thing, in fact I played better.

And I discovered that now I know how to interpret the music -- to do more than just play accurate notes. I discovered how to put little tiny rests in between the notes, to make it sound like real music, instead of "sawing on strings." It was a moment of pure ecstasy.

I know this was a rather personal post, but I think there's something powerful in here. I found Contentment! I don't need to spend money to be happy! In fact, doign things like gardening on weekends actually saves money.

So that's how I escaped the hell of Consumerism.

[abbcampbell]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('foodnotlawns', 'C')onsumerism is really the root of the problem. It's a lazy way to get to a place called "Contentment," and the irony is that you never get there.
...I know this was a rather personal post, but I think there's something powerful in here. I found Contentment! I don't need to spend money to be happy! In fact, doign things like gardening on weekends actually saves money.

So that's how I escaped the hell of Consumerism.

[crapattack]

The "Guest" post was me, forgot to login.

[crapattack_gst1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you try, you may not succeed. If you don't try, you're guaranteed not to succeed. It's that simple. Now look at our "Peak Oil Pundits." How many of them are suggesting a course of action to try to mitigate, and how many are saying we need to give up on large chunks of the population? I'm no expert in energy. These guys are...that's why we listen to them when they say that peak oil is imminent, right? So why not listen to them when they say trying to mitigate is worthwhile?

[0mar]

My advice for people asking about peakoil?

Get a good 5.56x45 rifle, lots of ammo and aim high.

[crapattack]

Omar said:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')y advice for people asking about peakoil?

Get a good 5.56x45 rifle, lots of ammo and aim high.

[Mesuge]

Crossbows are sexy but only short range. Another problem is that their contemporary space age materials won't allow for wood or any diy arrows..
Everything is too tightly computed for the advanced materials.
The only option is to get 100% natural material 'retro crossbow' someone certainly makes them check out the web..

[crapattack]

foodnotlawns wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
') I found Contentment! I don't need to spend money to be happy! In fact, doign things like gardening on weekends actually saves money.

[crapattack]

Mesuge wrote:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Don't Tell People About Peak Oil
Crossbows are sexy but only short range. Another problem is that their contemporary space age materials won't allow for wood or any diy arrows..
Everything is too tightly computed for the advanced materials.
The only option is to get 100% natural material 'retro crossbow' someone certainly makes them check out the web..

[abbcampbell]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crapattack_gst1', 'Y')ou are assuming that the only two courses of action are to try to mitigate or to do nothing. I believe that mitigation is worthwhile if it has a reasonable chance of succeeding, but it is a massive misallocation of energy if it has very little chance and can actually do some harm and if it directs people away from putting their energies into preparation. .... I also have a desire to see mitigation succeed, but that is not going to prevent me telling all my friends about PO and from trying to prepare. I'd rather be wrong than dead.

[holmes]

I dont. religion is a mental illness. Religions seek to point the blame on all not within there cult. Religion cult members are the most irresponsible people in the world. I use the bible pages to start my campfires. really. Got one in my camp box. When i use one up I get another somewhere at a flea market or something. screw brainwashing.
Maybe more will commit suicide they have done enough murdering and destruction to this earth already. slash your wrists lengthwise, remember.

[abbcampbell]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'I') dont. religion is a mental illness. Religions seek to point the blame on all not within there cult. Religion cult members are the most irresponsible people in the world. I use the bible pages to start my campfires. really. Got one in my camp box. When i use one up I get another somewhere at a flea market or something. screw brainwashing.
Maybe more will commit suicide they have done enough murdering and destruction to this earth already. slash your wrists lengthwise, remember.

[crapattack]

Homes wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') dont. religion is a mental illness. Religions seek to point the blame on all not within there cult. Religion cult members are the most irresponsible people in the world. I use the bible pages to start my campfires. really. Got one in my camp box. When i use one up I get another somewhere at a flea market or something. screw brainwashing.
Maybe more will commit suicide they have done enough murdering and destruction to this earth already. slash your wrists lengthwise, remember.

[crapattack]

abbcampbell wrote:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is positively nothing wrong with, and plenty right with being prepared, peak oil collapse or not. Natural disasters, civil disorder, and plenty of other bad things can make a little bit of self-reliance a very sensible thing. Besides, I have dependants who will need to make it even if I don't.

So you see, I feel preparation is quite wise, and am trying to prepare as best I can; I also feel telling people about peak oil is absolutely essential. Matt may not have understood what I was trying to tell him...and maybe I didn't express it well, but my only gripe is with presenting the view of "it isn't worth trying to mitigate" as a foregone conclusion. Which of our peak-oil experts out there is telling us trying to mitigate is a bad idea? Not Campbell, not Deffeyes, not Goodstein, not Hirsch, and not even the late great M. King Hubbert.

[abbcampbell]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crapattack', 'I') think the point is that mitigation that has no chance of succeeding actually is harmful in that it gives people a false hope and may mean that they don't act on their own behalf.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crapattack', '
')I think the point is that mitigation that has no chance of succeeding actually is harmful in that it gives people a false hope and may mean that they don't act on their own behalf. I think much of the mitigation, and I agree with Matt on this point, is pointless if not irresponsible misallocation of resources. Much of the PO bickering back and forth is arguing whether this or that technology is viable and going save us. People will continue to dispute the facts if they think there is a slim chance this or that could save them and instead they'd be far better off preparing in the more than likey case that mitigation will fail.

[crapattack]

abbcampbell wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')rapattack wrote:
I think the point is that mitigation that has no chance of succeeding actually is harmful in that it gives people a false hope and may mean that they don't act on their own behalf.