PeakOil is You
Are we getting richer?
Re: Are we getting richer?
by rogerhb » Thu 27 Oct 2005, 20:06:46
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CrudeAwakening', 'S')o true... downgrading your lifestyle too much is a mating strategy that is likely to fail
Downgrade after you're married!
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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rogerhb - Light Sweet Crude
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Re: Are we getting richer?
by MrBill » Wed 02 Nov 2005, 07:03:39
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'I') agree there is a lot of subjectivity, but imagine what would happen if we were wealthier.
1. we would not need to so much time at work to make ends meet.
2. we would be able to pay off our houses quicker
3. we would be able to retire earlier
4. we would be saving more than digging ourselves in to more debt.
5. we would not need two incomes instead of one to get by in a household.
These are not arguments about whether we get more value from improvements in quality of products, I'm trying to look at it from a bigger picture.
In otherwords, will the rat-race ever end, or will houses always soak up available funds, and will we ever have enough consumer goods that are irrelevent to survival.
Eg, are the problems because we are incapable of saying 'enough'.
1. we would not need to so much time at work to make ends meet.
2. we would be able to pay off our houses quicker
3. we would be able to retire earlier
4. we would be saving more than digging ourselves in to more debt.
5. we would not need two incomes instead of one to get by in a household.
These are not arguments about whether we get more value from improvements in quality of products, I'm trying to look at it from a bigger picture.
In otherwords, will the rat-race ever end, or will houses always soak up available funds, and will we ever have enough consumer goods that are irrelevent to survival.
Eg, are the problems because we are incapable of saying 'enough'.
Roger, we have a two income home (soon to be one) and we earn more than average. If we choose to live a lifestyle similar to my grandparents after the second world war we would have no problem. A modest 1500-1800 sq. foot home. No luxury ammenities. One car. Home prepared meals using basic groceries and no precooked meals. No big screen TV, stereo, VCR/DVD player or modern day consumer electronics, just a plain TV with no cable. Hobbies include playing cards, visiting friends, home entertainment, square dancing, etc.
Really, not a problem. We could likely live comfortably on a quarter of my salary and still pay-off our house in no time. As a matter of fact, we do not live that sparsely, but we don't need two incomes. Therefore we choose quality of life or quantity. No debt. No unnecessary purchases. One car. The same stereo, TV, VCR, etc. that we have had for over 10-years now. Modest accumulation of other items mostly in the form of birthday, Christmas, anniversary gifts. We enjoy hiking, biking, skiing and the outdoors. The rat race is what you make it
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
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MrBill - Expert
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Re: Are we getting richer?
by MrBill » Wed 02 Nov 2005, 07:08:43
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KingM', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CrudeAwakening', '
')The upper classes of old didn't have to bother too much with all that; they just 'knew' they were superior, and felt no need to prove themselves to the masses.
')The upper classes of old didn't have to bother too much with all that; they just 'knew' they were superior, and felt no need to prove themselves to the masses.
Have you ever seen the "cottages" of the Vanderbilts, etc., in Newport? Been to Versailles? How about the Taj Mahal? Have you ever seen an exhibit of the gold crap that King Tut was buried with to give him status and wealth in the next life?
That's true, but a lot of it got built up when they were just "new money". I grew up in a town with lawyers, CEOs, and big stakeholders in large corporations. The "old money" had a lot in common:
A) They lived in fancy houses that were built when Grandpa or Great-Grandpa or some other person got rich.
B) They never throw anything away. Nothing. One of my friends from school invited me over to his grandmother's house when I was in second grade. The mansion had a five acre garden, a 75 foot pool, a kitchen twice the size of my current apartment, an elevator, a ballroom on the third floor replete with three gold chandeliers, and 30 year old furniture, electronics, and appliances. Aside from a few things like a five year-old computer and a few other electronics, the house looked like something out of the '60s.
C) They drive 10-20 year old well-built cars, not new ones.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he audience for status/wealth displays varies according to the social structure. In a society where status is determined by which family you are born into, there is a security of status which minimises status conflict, or at least contains it. In a society like ours, where opportunities to ascend the social strata are greater, status conflict is rife.
I would really argue that there's two characteristics and/or gene that I've seen in old money; a joy out of being thrifty (but fair enough not to be cheap), and an understated approach to wealth.
IMHO, one is truly going to wind up wealthy when he/she can simply afford to keep less than 10% of his/her real wealth on display.
Naturally, the town also had the new wealth that lived in new 10,000 square-foot, higher-quality versions of McMansion and drove 1-2 year old Ferraris, and it also had middle class folks (like my family.) Something tells me the old wealth and some of the smarter middle class folks there will make it through Peak Oil without too much trouble, but we'll have to see.
That is too true. Had some friends from the Uni who I used to visit. Old money, but no vulgar displays of wealth. Totally understated and tactful. Like you say, never bought anything they didn't need and the furniture they had was of such good quality that it did not need to be replaced. A lot of continuity from generation to generation which means inheriting the golf & country club membership and the cottage at the lake. It made a big impression on me. Not like the nouveau riche - all the class that money can buy (not)
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
