by erl » Tue 01 Nov 2005, 20:26:14
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'W')hich historians are you talking about? the ones your pastor said all acknowledge Jeasus lived? My foster father went through theological college while I lived with them and became a pastor with the united church. and from what I understand, they agree that a lot of the events depicted in the bible (New testament) likely happened. but just because those events took place doesn't mean that Jeasus himself therefore lived.
My pastor? I have never discussed the historical evidence of Jesus death with my pastor. We have, of course, discussed the faith based aspects of this event. But, historical evidence? No, that's not his provence.
Evidence, and the analysis thereof, is my stock in trade. And there is plenty regarding the life, trial, crucifiction and death of Jesus.
Historians? Let's pass right by the four gospels, I kind of anticipate what your response will be to those. But, I will point out what I have said before on this site: Luke was written about thirty years after the death of Christ. Luke was a physician, sent by his employer, to ascertain and record what had happened in Jerusalem thirty years earlier. Luke interviewed witnesses and compared notes to the two earlier gospels: Mark and Matthew. Then he prepared his own historical account. He was not a witness to the actual events. He recorded the statements of witnesses.
Okay. Flavius Josephus. Jewish zealot. Jewish general. Fought against the Romans during the war of 66-70 A.D. Definitely not a christian convert. Defeated by the romans, he was captured and found favor with the Romans. Later he was taken to Rome and there became a Roman and wrote many volumes of Jewish history. Here are two versions of what this non-Christian wrote about Jesus:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')t this time there appeared Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one should call him a man. For he was a doer of startling deeds, a teacher of the people who receive the truth with pleasure. And he gained a following both among many Jews and among many of Greek origin. He was the Messiah. And when Pilate, because of an accusation made by the leading men among us, condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him previously did not cease to do so. For he appeared to them on the third day, living again, just as the divine prophets had spoken of these and countless other wondrous things about him. And up until this very day the tribe of Christians, named after him, has not died out.
[Jewish Antiquities, 18.63-64]
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')t this time there appeared Jesus, a wise man. For he was a doer of startling deeds, a teacher of the people who receive the truth with pleasure. And he gained a following both among many Jews and among many of Greek origin. And when Pilate, because of an accusation made by the leading men among us, condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him previously did not cease to do so. And up until this very day the tribe of Christians, named after him, has not died out.
