[Eli]

Look at what globilization has brought the US.

Only the top 5% have seen their income increase and there has been no new jobs added to the economy. And if you look closely the jobs that have been added at all are low paying service jobs while many high paying computing, engineering, accounting jobs have been shipped away.

The jobless recovery propped up by credit and consumer spending is going to turn into a very real job lost depression.

What we are going to find out shortly is that you can not have a service industry that is the servant of nothing.

[rogerhb]

Are you losing the will to win the race to the bottom?

[SHiFTY]

Here in rip-off Britain you really notice the effects of globalisation.

Locally made things like a cup of coffee and housing services are HUGE, while anything made overseas is cheap as chips.

However, you need to shop around. One supermarket wanted to charge me 3.95 for a toothbrush the other day... WTF?!? Guaranteed 99% of that was pure profit to the supermarket.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SHiFTY', 'L')ocally made things like a cup of coffee and housing services are HUGE, while anything made overseas is cheap as chips.

[GoIllini]

To be fair, the average worker at Delphi makes around $65/hour. They're asking their employees to drop down to an average wage of $17-$20/hour.

I hate to be mean, but as a college graduate, I'd kill for a $65/hour job. Most CS graduates would be happy to learn they'd be earning $65/hour when they were in their '60s.

$18/hour is VERY GOOD MONEY for factory work. It isn't like the auto industry wants to cut their workers pay from $15/hour to $5/hour.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', '$')18/hour is VERY GOOD MONEY for factory work. It isn't like the auto industry wants to cut their workers pay from $15/hour to $5/hour.

[kenohio]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', '$')18/hour is VERY GOOD MONEY for factory work. It isn't like the auto industry wants to cut their workers pay from $15/hour to $5/hour.

[Eli]

Kenohio

Very good point.
It used to be if you were willing to work hard you could make a good living in this country.

Then they said it takes more than hard work you have to get an education to make a living. They said study hard and then work hard and you will make a good living.

Now they are shipping out all the jobs they can that are based on intellect to New Deli faster than even labor jobs because they can pay the person a fraction for the same work and because the internet is a lot faster than cargo ship.

gobalization is going to be a disaster for many people. Now instead of steal mills closing they are closing HR blocks so some Bengali can do your taxes for 25 cents, mean while your cousin who went to school to be an accountant is going to be left flipping burgers and drowning with 75,000 dollars worth of student loans.

And some dick head economist will spout of some bs about the wonders of the global market and how great are new service driven economy is like it is really a good thing.

[ubercrap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', 'T')o be fair, the average worker at Delphi makes around $65/hour. They're asking their employees to drop down to an average wage of $17-$20/hour.

I hate to be mean, but as a college graduate, I'd kill for a $65/hour job. Most CS graduates would be happy to learn they'd be earning $65/hour when they were in their '60s.

$18/hour is VERY GOOD MONEY for factory work. It isn't like the auto industry wants to cut their workers pay from $15/hour to $5/hour.

[jaws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n 1999, the average Korean wage was US$1,241 per month, 35% of the average Japan wage, 49% of the average US wage, and comparable to Taiwan’s average, at $1,169. The average wage increased by 8% to US$1,338 in 2000,

[sol]

Anyone here Oz tye this in with Howards new industrial realations reforms

Seems fairly stright forward

but at least we could retain some internal consumption

[jmacdaddio]

From what I've been able to gather Delphi has been doomed from the start. The UAW doesn't work with the auto companies, they see their members' employers as adversaries and sure enough, when Delphi was created they were stuck with 50ish union workers at the top of the scale, large chunks of vacation time, and costly health care since insurers are now charging more for companies with graying workforces.

Reducing wages alone won't solve the problem. No matter how low the wages go, there will always be someplace where the wage is cheaper. US labor is also uncompetitive because the employer is expected to pay for healthcare unlike Europe or Canada because of the national health systems, or the low-wage nations because there isn't any plan whatsoever. In the coming years we'll reap the fruits of neglecting our education system, when a generation of idiots unable to follow simple instructions or focus for more than two minutes at a time takes over the shop floor from the graying baby boomers.

[ohanian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JoeW', 'I')'m not sure where the $65/hr avg comes from, but I will add that about a year ago they were talking about the offshoring of American jobs and they posted the average wage for autoworkers in a number of countries. The US was at the top (no surprise there) at something like $37/hr and at or near the bottom was South Korea, and I think that figure might have been $2/hr.

[Peakoil_Tarzan]

These data are a couple of years old but presumably they are in the ballpark:

"... In 1999, the average Korean wage was US$1,241 per month, 35% of the average Japan wage, 49% of the average US wage, and comparable to Taiwan’s average, at $1,169."

So, certainly not $2 per hour but not a living wage by US standards, either.

The statistic that tickled me the most was this one:

"A 2000 Asiaweek survey found that the average Korean corporate CEO commands a salary of US$9,800 per month."

Hilarious! Can you imagine an American CEO settling for a measly $120K? Now there's where we could cut some fat...

[evilmonkeyspanker]

Since President Bush took office, the number of Americans out of work has increased by nearly 50 percent, to 8.8 million. Over this same period, three million private-sector jobs, including 2.6 million manufacturing jobs, have been lost. In fact, we have lost manufacturing jobs for 39 consecutive months, including 24,000 in October. Under President Bush, the unemployment rate has climbed from 4.2 percent to 6 percent - and two million Americans have been searching for work for more than six months.

Now these numbers where from last year and have things improved? That answer would of course be a resounding no. They have gotten worse. As this continues to develop and expand over the next year, those numbers will double. At this point a chain reaction will occur which will do these seven things in order.

1) Stock Market will collapse
2) Now even more companies will go under
3) Great Depression
4) Breakdown of civilization
5) Police State
6) Civil War
7) World War 3

I hope you have all made peace with whatever created you.

monkeys
god
space aliens
spagetti monster

[jdmartin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')o be fair, the average worker at Delphi makes around $65/hour. They're asking their employees to drop down to an average wage of $17-$20/hour.

I hate to be mean, but as a college graduate, I'd kill for a $65/hour job. Most CS graduates would be happy to learn they'd be earning $65/hour when they were in their '60s.

$18/hour is VERY GOOD MONEY for factory work. It isn't like the auto industry wants to cut their workers pay from $15/hour to $5/hour.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', '.')........
$27 per hour, not $65 per hour. Hell, 15 seconds of arithmetic would solve that question - $65 per hour for a normal workyear = $135,200. Come on now, people, common sense would dictate that no one on a factory assembly line is making $135k.

This kind of misinformation being posted as fact makes us all look stupid to someone who happens to stumble in here.
..............

[cube]

BTW wait till the Chinese start ramping up their auto industry. When that happens, even the South Koreans will have something to fear. And yes a Chinese factory worker does make somewhere around $2 / hr. Feel free to "google" that to validate the authenticity.

Does anybody here think the UAW union will still exist when Walmart starts selling $10,000 cars made in China?

[ubercrap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'B')TW wait till the Chinese start ramping up their auto industry. When that happens, even the South Koreans will have something to fear. And yes a Chinese factory worker does make somewhere around $2 / hr. Feel free to "google" that to validate the authenticity.

Does anybody here think the UAW union will still exist when Walmart starts selling $10,000 cars made in China?

[MicroHydro]

In 1973, auto workers at Chrysler made $17/hr. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $68/hr in 2005 money. Now that was a kingly wage, more than my Dad made as a university professor.

Now wages as low as $10/hr are being discussed by management. That would be an 85% decrease in earning power since the US hit domestic peak oil. Labor arbitrage has allowed Asians to enjoy wage gains at the expense of workers in developed nations over the last three decades. But that is a one time event. The global worker will face the same relentless decline in standard of living that US workers have. That is peak oil amid a global labor surplus, no escaping it. The auto worker in Shanghai may not know it yet, but this will be the best decade he will ever have.