[Louie]

This may interest you.

www.cocogas.com

Regards.

Luis Matias

[Heineken]

Yeah, but what's the EROEI? How many zillions of acres of coconuts would it take to power the world's auto fleets, and what environmental devastation would result?

[Caoimhan]

*drumroll*

And now! Presenting my all-time favorite argument against an alternative energy technology...

"Since it can't replace all our oil usage, we shouldn't be doing it."

Thank you for your input, Heineken!

[Devil]

Have we bred enough pig-tailed macaques to harvest the increased demand for coconuts? :D

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', '*')drumroll*

And now! Presenting my all-time favorite argument against an alternative energy technology...

"Since it can't replace all our oil usage, we shouldn't be doing it."

Thank you for your input, Heineken!

[KingM]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')
I think we have to stop trying to perpetuate the madness with coconuts or whatever. Instead, power down and start repairing the damage.

[Heineken]

Powering down does not mean returning to the Dark Ages, KingM. It means rationally redesigning, retooling, and above all downscaling and "localizing" for a time when much less net energy will be available to this civilization. Otherwise, that civilization goes ka-blooey and there will be graveyards that dwarf the 19th century ones. You can't have your cake and eat it too, but that's the essential mindset behind projects like the coconut one.

Giant new energy projects are not the answer to our predicament.

And I still want to know the EROEI on coconut power. If it's negative, as it generally is with biofuel projects, then there's nothing left to debate. Operations involving trees tend to be particularly energy-intensive, BTW.

AND I want to know the potential environmental impact.

[Caoimhan]

Have you ever stopped to think that coconut -> fuel production might just be considered a local energy source like you claim we need? Particularly on islands where shipping of oil is expensive. Hawaii is one of the leaders in biodiesel production, partially BECAUSE they can use local agricultural sources for the fuel.

No one is arguing against conservation. But a lot of the doomers here talk about a massive "power down". Tell me... how would you like to go about it? Institute a massive energy ration on people, enforced by the guns of the government? People will conserve as financial common sense makes them conserve.

[Heineken]

Read "Powerdown," by Richard Heinberg, and then get back to me.

[0mar]

The problem with most biofuels is that they take nearly a decade before reaching even a decent %. However, they are unsuited for taking over the decline, simply because fossil fuels operates on a whole different scale than alternatives.

It's like comparing the solar system to a rock formation. While the rock formation may be huge in context, compared to the solar system, it is but a speck. That's the difference in scale between fossil fuels and alternatives.

[frankthetank]

I suppose once the Amazonian rainforest is gone, they'll want to diverisfy a little...maybe this will help?

sugarcane, soybeans ...coconuts?

[evilmonkeyspanker]

I am not giving up my electric razor... you all can just go to hell if you think I am giving that up

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'G')iant new energy projects are not the answer to our predicament.

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'R')ead "Powerdown," by Richard Heinberg, and then get back to me.

[0mar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'G')iant new energy projects are not the answer to our predicament.

[BabyPeanut]

Mmm, coconut gasoline! Part of your complete diet:

[cube]

Is it my imagination or am I starting to see a lot more "news" articles about how you can make oil from various renewable sources.

First there was the case of making plastic from orange peels.

Then there was the German inventor that vehemently protested when someone suggested he used a cat as the feedstock for making oil.

Now we've got coconut gasoline...hmmm maybe it'll smell better.

What will they think of next.....???

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'R')ead "Powerdown," by Richard Heinberg, and then get back to me.

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'R')ead "Powerdown," by Richard Heinberg, and then get back to me.

[Heineken]

Thanks for the clarification, energyspin. I'm sure we can agree to disagree.

I have little faith in techno-experts, I'm afraid.

Since PO and its consequences are all a gigantic experiment in progress, there are insufficient data to conclusively support either Heinberg's Weltanschauung or yours. However, I'm persuaded by his logic. Basically, I think we have to reverse "growthism," both in energy production and its economic byproducts. Yes, there is danger in that, but not nearly as much danger as there is in the course we're on. Heinberg suggests a path to a soft landing.