[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rkerver', 'N')ow its 23.

[doufus]

As they say- life isn't a problem to be solved but a mystery to be
experienced.

The kind of anguish you're experiencing is pretty ego driven- but normal
for most of us. Can i suggest reading some nondualism literature.
However, if your ego is doing a dummy spit over the prospect of its own demise then ND is pretty heavy going because
it's fundamental conclusion is that you don't exist at all. javascript:emoticon(':oops:')
Embarassed

Now, for adherents to western individualism and the cult of "me" this is
utterly unacceptable. And I have at this point probably been dumped into the " nutcase folder" of hundreds of mailboxes.

But (!) the unfolding realisation that we are ALL, each
and every one of us, headed for a pine box is actually the driving energy
behind everyday ego dynamics as we strive for power, possessions
and stimulation- anything that can distract us and/or protect us from
this unavoidable truth.

And the lengths we go to in our denial are truly amazing. We invent fairytales we call religions that will save us if we perform the right rituals and believe the right things. We create empires of possessions,
build pyramids, preserve our corpses, dull our minds with drugs and
entertainment. Sometimes we even eat pizza. Yep we'll do just about
anything to take our minds off our inevitable last breath.

But consider it this way. The universe is an ocean of consciousness
that has always existed and always will. Flecks and drops of spray
surge back and forth all of the time. One of them is you and in your
moment of flight and momentary consciousness you look down and say "Well f^&%ck me! Who am I? Where do I come from? I must be
important. What am I supposed to do? How am i supposed to live?
What am I here for?"

Of course, being blissfully unaware of your own true nature as a
part of this infinite ocean, you wallow in your own angst and
ego. You indulge in all sorts of fantasies and enterprises to
reassure yourself that somehow, someway your very important
self will not return to the ocean it came from. But of course it will.

One commentator noted that we see ourselves as points of life
in a dead universe when in fact it's the opposite. Our temporary
connsciousness momentarily isolates us from everything that is.
Consequently, we are actually points of death in a living, conscious universe.

If u take that approach, then death isn't the end of you and your
incredibly important ass. It's a return to everything that always
was and always will be. Not you as in the bag of neuroses and
desires you drag around each day. But you as a droplet of
consciousness rejoining its ocean once more.

But the more you dwell on you, the worse it will get.

Get some nature time if u can. In between the bugs and discomfort
you might recapture the feeling of "merging" we get when we look at the
stars or natural beauty. You might regain your sense of place in the
scheme of things. You might hear the ocean you come from and
realise that it's where you belong and where you will ultimately go.
And in that same moment, you might be lucky and understand that
there never was a you in any case. But that's way beyond your
average fashion following, media educated, American Lemming.

So go order that pizza now and fer chrissake stop thinking about yourself
and just look around and be amazed.

here endeth navel gazing 101.

[Yavicleus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lowem', 'T')he answer is 42.

[Hawkcreek]

--

[Raxozanne]

Madonna has been trying to answer this question for decades and the best she's found is Kabbalah

[ashurbanipal]

Interesting question, and one for which I have no complete answer. But I have a couple thoughts:

1) Doufus' post is quite incisive, but I think we need to understand the implications of what he's saying a little better. If the universe is actually continuous in this way (I believe it is) then nothing ever really dies, nor is consciousness anything that should be thought of as localized. We tend to perceive consciousness as localized, but this view may be naieve, as are so many other "intuitive" positions.

2) Therefore meaning both is an is not an invention of the human mind. Lao-Tzu remarked that nature is not human-minded, but the flaw in this line of thinking is that human minds are natural, part of nature and a product of natural forces. Without human (or similar) minds, there would probably be no such thing as "meaning," but this does not imply that meaning is unnatural or artificial, or that the meaning one gives to one's life is somehow less than the meaning that was supposed to have been granted by religion. The meaning of life, to me, is in whatever I happen to be doing.

3) This is not to disparage religion per se. I think that religions have generally wrecked the intentions of their founders and central figures. Gnostic religions (such as Buddhism or Sikhism) fare better in this regard than agnostic religions (such as any form of protestantism), but I don't know of a single religion that is completely blameless in this regard.

"God" is as good a term as any to focus on, here, as this seems to be a stand-in for the "final meaning" of many religions, and it seems to figure prominently enough even in those that focus on something else. Most people don't know what they mean when they say "God," having some vague concept of an old man with a long flowing beard on a golden throne in the clouds. Obviously, this is an absurd concept of God unless it is taken metaphorically, in which case it becomes unclear. I think, though, that if we see "God" as an abstract concept that denotes the intimate interconnectedness and reflectiveness of all things, then the idea becomes a little better. Thought of in this way, it's easy to see how "God" might be thought of as being omniscient, say, since "God" would be everything that is known.

Once one has this clearly in mind (and I'll expand on the concept more for anyone that wishes to follow out the line of thought a little further), reading those oft-heckled ancient scriptures takes on a completely different meaning. One thing that we might learn from them is that any meaning is enough for life; all the answers given above by the posters to this thread, even the absurd ones, work if they have the actual support of your person.

4) Death is indeed the supreme question that waits at the end of life. What is paradoxical-seeming about death is really quite elegant on analysis. It has seemed to some that, if death is really a final end to life, then life must have no meaning because of its temporality. But if we subtract death from all consciousness, are we so inspired to seek a meaning for life? I don't think we would be.

In any event, I don't think death is the end of anything important. There are some good reasons to believe that consciousness survives death in some way; the arguments for a strictly mechanical view of life (under which I would subsume many different positions such as functionalism, identity theory, Dennetian meanderings, etc.) are surprisingly weak. While some version of materialism continues to be the default position of most academics, this seems to be changing slowly but surely. I can expand on this if anyone is interested.

In any case, I don't think that pure analysis is ever going to approach something like an ultimate truth. I think rather, such a truth, and any attendant meaning, will have to be experienced. And there is a whole literature out there for how to do that.

[JayBee]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('auctionmonster', 'w')hat does it all mean?

[erl]

Before addressing the underlying question, there is an issue of standing:

Why is this thread in the Peak Oil Discussion forum?

Either the Psychology or the Open Discussion forums would seem more appropriate.

Buy, hey, who am I to decide such weighty issues?

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kevincarter', 'a')nd no, I do not understand how a TV works...

[turmoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', ' ')Not every objection is a threat to the truth as you percieve it.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('stupid_monkeys', 'A')nd as far as occupations go, it's not what you do, it's how you do it.

[evilmonkeyspanker]

Some really great responses to this thread! I am happier tonight Not quite so depressed I guess.

In regards to egoism, are you saying that in order find meaning in life should one find first meaning in themselves and if that is the case and a person can not find a meaning for themselves then they have no purpose because they will never be able to better society and In living to better society which society should I take into this context, the natural society or a more worldly society.

Some of you guys are very insightful and if you are not currently writing books, I think you might take it upon yourselves to explore this option as I feel you have much to offer.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kevincarter', 'a')nd no, I do not understand how a TV works...

[evilmonkeyspanker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'W')hat about LCD TV's receiving digital HDTV sources. How do those work?

[Ardalla]

Well, you ask an interesting question. The meaning of life. This has been the fox for Phisophers' hound for a few thousand years. Of course they have utterly failed because the question has no dimension in which it can even be discussed with reasonable hope for a resolution. Today, does anyone even major in Philosophy in college?

One of the problems is the word "meaning" itself.

Let's say that a large chunk of space garbage comes flying along and wipes out our planet. Let's say we were the only living beings in the universe. Does the universe now have no meaning whatsoever?

The word "meaning" does not refer to anything but itself. It's not that the world has no meaning; it's that meaning has no real existence in the same way as let's say energy and matter. Saying that life has whatever meaning you give it is the same as saying that life is fool's dream.

I would recommend reading a few Ted Hughes poems. Here's one:

Crow Sickened

His illness was something could not vomit him up.
Unwinding the world like a ball of wool
Found the last end tied round his own finger.
Decided to get death, but whatever
Walked into his ambush
Was always his own body.
Where is this somebody who has me under?
He dived, he journeyed, challenging, he climbed and with a glare
Of hair on end finally met fear.
His eyes sealed up with shock, refusing to see.
With all his strength he struck. He felt the blow.
Horrified, he fell.

[CrudeAwakening]

AM, I can understand your journey into existential angst; when you emerge, you will be stronger for it.

May I suggest you ponder the wise words of Spike Milligan, who, on reflecting on his most cherished memory in life, said:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')"When I look back, the fondest memory I have is not really of the Goons. It is of a girl called Julia with enormous breasts."

[katkinkate]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lowem', 'T')he answer is 42.

[medicvet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daculling', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lowem', 'T')he answer is 42.