[Leanan]

I don't think it's quite that simple. Society does enter into it...because you are bidding against others in your society when you buy a house.

A book called The Two-Income Trap describes some fascinating research. The rise of the two-income family has created a bidding war for housing. Instead of making families wealthier, it's impoverished them.

The people who get into trouble financially are generally not the ones charging big-screen TVs on their credit cards. Those people generally do okay, because when push comes to shove, they can cut back on their spending easily enough.

The people who get in trouble generally do so because of medical bills. Moreoever, most of them have health insurance. Even with health insurance, medical care is so expensive that the deductibles, fees, drug copays, etc., are enough to drive many families into bankruptcy. Unless you're Bill Gates, you can't afford to get sick in this country.

I suspect it is that that keeps most people tethered to jobs they don't like. The fear of losing health coverage. I suppose in the old days, it would be easy. You'd either get better, or you wouldn't. It wasn't unusual for entire families - a dozen kids - to die in epidemics. Today, parents expect their children to live to adulthood. And no expense is spared toward that end.

[Auntie_Cipation]

I agree that medical care is what puts many otherwise-within-their-means people over the edge into unsustainable debt.

You've hit on a keystone here. It's not that "you can't afford to get sick" anymore, but "you can't afford to get well."

The assumption that everyone who gets sick, is "entitled" to get well, using whatever chemicals and surgeries currently recommended by big pharma. Not only is this unsustainable in the sense that these treatments are all cheap-energy dependent, it's also unsustainable with regard to the population graph.

But, it's heresy to suggest that it's ok for sick people to die sometimes. It's apparently also heresy to suggest that old people be allowed to die of anything other than "old age."

How does one talk about this without offending the "we-all-deserve-to-live-forever" crowd?

[Teclo]

i know someone that went to gambia, over there they have large family groups out of which only a few will work to provide food for the rest
They had no comprehension of why in the west we work so hard and couldn't understand what was worth buying

Despite democracy our economic system is still a form of slavery that encourages you to voluntarily give up most of your life to work

In the middle ages there were many peasant movements, and whole communities were swept away by the industrial revolution and rationalism. This was more destructive than even the crusades or inquisition was, the final victory over the peasants
One can see this in the Sheila Na Gig's of a very old, worn out creature, representing the spiritual state of the land.

I'm not saying turn the clock back and maybe its evolution but the allure of being middle class is slavery and the next evolution has to be away from industrialisation to life having no meaning imposed by the state, religious or material. Make up your own meaning

[Raxozanne]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Teclo', 'i') know someone that went to gambia, over there they have large family groups out of which only a few will work to provide food for the rest
They had no comprehension of why in the west we work so hard and couldn't understand what was worth buying

[frankthetank]

I come from a family that values free time. My mom was a stay at home and was always around when i needed help. So now here i am working less then 40hr/2weeks. I am debt free and live very cheaply. I am still able to save and have some savings to fall back on. If i get fired/quite... its no hair off my ---. I don't know about some of you, but i get majorly annoyed by fellow coworkers who continue to rip on me when they can for not picking up more hours (where does it say this in my employment handbook?). I'm about ready to tell them all to lick my sweaty "you know what" from biking to work all the time (something i have time to do).

People value money about all else and its sad. A person can really get by on a lot less and still be somewhat happy. (who is happy?).

[CarlinsDarlin]

frank,
I know what you mean. I get grief on a regular basis from people asking me why, with a college degree do I "sit on my ass" and not try to "better myself." I remind them that not only did I earn that degree, I worked full-time for 20 years after I earned it. I paid for my education myself, working my way through school, and I paid back every cent of student loans I took out before I quit my job.

I also remind them that I choose to live the way I do. I choose to invest my time (which is worth more than any amount of money to me) into the development of my homestead and into caring for those around me.

I have chosen to opt out of the quest for "more," instead, focusing my energy into the quest for those things that are more valuable to me - and those things are not things.

We never have extra money - but we don't lack for anything. I'm happy. There's a lot to be said for happy.
K

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ubercynicmeister', '[')

Truth was, "average" means exactly that - 50% of the people died at or before their 18th birthday (and most of those before their first birthday). But 50% live on after that, most to a ripe old age.
.

[Jake_old]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') also remind them that I choose to live the way I do. I choose to invest my time (which is worth more than any amount of money to me) into the development of my homestead and into caring for those around me.

[gary_malcolm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ubercynicmeister', '[')

Truth was, "average" means exactly that - 50% of the people died at or before their 18th birthday (and most of those before their first birthday). But 50% live on after that, most to a ripe old age.
.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gary_malcolm', 'A')dult mortality is 100%

[evilmonkeyspanker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gary_malcolm', 'A')dult mortality is 100%

[ohanian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', '
')
The people who get in trouble generally do so because of medical bills. Moreoever, most of them have health insurance. Even with health insurance, medical care is so expensive that the deductibles, fees, drug copays, etc., are enough to drive many families into bankruptcy. Unless you're Bill Gates, you can't afford to get sick in this country.

[peaker_2005]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('auctionmonster', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gary_malcolm', 'A')dult mortality is 100%