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"Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

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"Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby Leanan » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 15:08:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat is happiness? In the United States and in many other industrialized countries, it is often equated with money.

Economists measure consumer confidence on the assumption that the resulting figure says something about progress and public welfare. The gross domestic product, or G.D.P., is routinely used as shorthand for the well-being of a nation.

But the small Himalayan kingdom of Bhutan has been trying out a different idea.

In 1972, concerned about the problems afflicting other developing countries that focused only on economic growth, Bhutan's newly crowned leader, King Jigme Singye Wangchuck, decided to make his nation's priority not its G.D.P. but its G.N.H., or gross national happiness.


They've been successful:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')While household incomes in Bhutan remain among the world's lowest, life expectancy increased by 19 years from 1984 to 1998, jumping to 66 years. The country, which is preparing to shift to a constitution and an elected government, requires that at least 60 percent of its lands remain forested, welcomes a limited stream of wealthy tourists and exports hydropower to India.

"We have to think of human well-being in broader terms," said Lyonpo Jigmi Thinley, Bhutan's home minister and ex-prime minister. "Material well-being is only one component. That doesn't ensure that you're at peace with your environment and in harmony with each other."


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/04/science/04happ.html
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 15:14:33

It's a good idea.
'Standard of living' is a poor measure of both social and economic health, anyways.
See 'GDP' for other example.

How many toys one has certainly doesn't correlate well with their overall 'happiness'.
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

George Carlin
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby BabyPeanut » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 15:19:14

"Medieval Peasants Sat In Front of a Web Browser Less Than You Do"
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby backstop » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 15:26:30

Leanan -

while it's a real pleasure to see another Constitutional Monarchy emerging, it's worth noting that the previous Absolute Monarchy has established one of the most sustainable societies on the planet.

Exactly which republic can even get near making such a claim ?

Personally I guess the republican model's intensifying failures are due not merely to its promtion of property rights over human rights, but to its basis in the slave-state thinking of ancient Greece.

[Tin Hat On]

regards,

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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby gnm » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 15:26:40

Medieval Peasants also lived half as long.

-G
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby NeoPeasant » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 15:58:00

IMHO every American ought to spend a year living in a 12' square cabin with a wood stove, no electricity and no plumbing, an outhouse and a well pump outside. They should have no vehicle and live on a diet of unprocessed grain, produce and maybe the occasional chicken or rabbit. (which would still be considered a luxurious life by many of the worlds inhabitants).
This would help them understand the difference between what they actually need and what they merely want or are just used to having. This understanding may prove to be quite useful in the coming years when it may be a matter of life or death to appreciate the differences.
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby gnm » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 15:59:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', 'I')MHO every American ought to spend a year living in a 12' square cabin with a wood stove, no electricity and no plumbing, an outhouse and a well pump outside. They should have no vehicle and live on a diet of unprocessed grain, produce and maybe the occasional chicken or rabbit. (which would still be considered a luxurious life by many of the worlds inhabitants).
This would help them understand the difference between what they actually need and what they merely want or are just used to having. This understanding may prove to be quite useful in the coming years when it may be a matter of life or death to appreciate the differences.


An excellent suggestion... But the libertarian in me wouldn't impose it by force.

-G
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby romanko » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 16:03:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', 'I')MHO every American ought to spend a year living in a 12' square cabin with a wood stove, no electricity and no plumbing, an outhouse and a well pump outside. They should have no vehicle and live on a diet of unprocessed grain, produce and maybe the occasional chicken or rabbit. (which would still be considered a luxurious life by many of the worlds inhabitants).
This would help them understand the difference between what they actually need and what they merely want or are just used to having. This understanding may prove to be quite useful in the coming years when it may be a matter of life or death to appreciate the differences.


An excellent idea! Sort of a petro-collapse boot-camp!
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby Jake_old » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 16:09:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')Medieval Peasants Sat In Front of a Web Browser Less Than You Do"


yes but they had less need to do so

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')edieval Peasants also lived half as long.


This is true but they wouldn't have expected to live longer so would not be that bad, just like people in Nigeria are rated as happiest people on earth although they have little compared to me.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')MHO every American ought to spend a year living in a 12' square cabin with a wood stove, no electricity and no plumbing, an outhouse and a well pump outside. They should have no vehicle and live on a diet of unprocessed grain, produce and maybe the occasional chicken or rabbit. (which would still be considered a luxurious life by many of the worlds inhabitants).
This would help them understand the difference between what they actually need and what they merely want or are just used to having. This understanding may prove to be quite useful in the coming years when it may be a matter of life or death to appreciate the differences.


I agree this is a great idea, it shows that this way of life is not the 'normal' way of life.

Great thread, everything is relative. Sudden change is what scares us. :shock:
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 16:20:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')edieval Peasants also lived half as long.


And do you think living longer for the sake of it is a benefit to society in that it aids overshoot?
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby gary_malcolm » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 16:30:54

Basic life expectancy numbers tend to exaggerate this growth in the modern era.

The low level of pre-modern life expectancy is distorted by the previous extremely high infant and childhood mortality. If a person did make it to the age of forty they had an average of another twenty years to live. Improvements in medicine, public health and nutrition have therefore mainly increased the numbers of people living beyond childhood, with less effect on overall average lifespan.
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby linlithgowoil » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 16:32:43

i work about 44 hours a week. i sit on my ass all day long at my desk, use the phone, revise documents, have an hour lunch, drive to and from my work straight to my door in comfort. return to my home, eat quality food, watch digital tv, play the pc, and have a great comfortable bed to sleep in.

people would seriously trade that for back breaking labour in the middle ages? holy crap.
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby NeoPeasant » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 16:37:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', 'I')MHO every American ought to spend a year living in a 12' square cabin with a wood stove, no electricity and no plumbing, an outhouse and a well pump outside. They should have no vehicle and live on a diet of unprocessed grain, produce and maybe the occasional chicken or rabbit. (which would still be considered a luxurious life by many of the worlds inhabitants).

Add in a little beer money and a pub and a library down the road and I could live happily this way. I suppose if I didn't get out and socialize much I might end up passing the time building bombs and writing my manifesto...
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby Jake_old » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 16:56:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i') work about 44 hours a week. i sit on my ass all day long at my desk, use the phone, revise documents, have an hour lunch, drive to and from my work straight to my door in comfort. return to my home, eat quality food, watch digital tv, play the pc, and have a great comfortable bed to sleep in.


Yes linlinth, but is that really what you want.

I'm not saying i could go back and live that way, but if that was what I was used to then i would be happy, and in less danger now.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')I suppose if I didn't get out and socialize much I might end up passing the time building bombs and writing my manifesto...


Like Karl Marx?
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby mgibbons19 » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 17:01:52

the unabomber
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby DomusAlbion » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 17:17:47

Ah, romanticizing about the medieval period. How sweet. :roll:

I'll take my fresh tomatoes in February, hot tub, modern medical practices and pluralistic society and civil rights, thank you.
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby FireJack » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 17:28:10

We know know a lot more about whats good for you and whats not that they didn't have in the middle ages. They had no idea how to treat illnesses back then and its one of the main reason so many suffered. Plus religious suppresion, poor diet, generally uneducated populace, etc.

Living a simple life isn't the same as living like a midievil peasent.
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby gnm » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 17:29:08

Hell no - no way I'd want to live that way - I just thought the idea of a short period of living "medieval style" would be humbling and enlightening. Thats why I liked the idea. Sort of like how much you appreciate a long hot shower after a tough weeklong backpacking trip...

Never mind that a good chunk of the world _does_ live that way..... Those of us in the pampered places might be better able to understand if we had experienced...

-G
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby DomusAlbion » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 17:49:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', ' ')I just thought the idea of a short period of living "medieval style" would be humbling and enlightening. Thats why I liked the idea. Sort of like how much you appreciate a long hot shower after a tough weeklong backpacking trip...

[snip]

-G


I can agree with that statement and have experienced it many times; including deciding whether to have cold or hot water for breakfast when a student.

Sure we in the West are pampered and fortunate and we should appreciate what we have. I know I do.
"Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
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Re: "Medieval Peasants Worked Less Than You Do"

Unread postby Jake_old » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 17:57:57

We live longer but aren't the things we die of just as horrible.

War, disease, self inflicted type things too.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ure we in the West are pampered and fortunate and we should appreciate what we have. I know I do.


I certainly agree with this though.
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