[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', '
')Doomers believe there is no use trying. Any efforts to improve the situation are futile or even counter-productive. Doomers often argue in favor of letting millions of people die -- either because it is inevitable or because it is good policy. Doomers do not believe in political or social action.

[bart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JudoCow09', 'Y')ou guys have way too much time on your hands to make such lengthy posts all commonly backed by facts, ... Still, I can't begin to understand when you guys have fun (other than Jack, who does bring some needed humor to this board ). It seems to me you're always preparing, posting, and researching.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', ' ')Doomers believe there is no use trying. Any efforts to improve the situation are futile or even counter-productive. Doomers often argue in favor of letting millions of people die -- either because it is inevitable or because it is good policy. Doomers do not believe in political or social action. Not surprisingly, they often have a racist or nationalist tinge. In the US, doomers are often associated with "survivalist gun-toting nuts."

Doomers trade in fear and hysteria. They don't keep current, except for reading an occasional article by Kunstler or Ruppert. Their conversation is full of images of riots and cannibals, guns and survival rations.

[rostov]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', '
')Doomers believe there is no use trying. Any efforts to improve the situation are futile or even counter-productive. Doomers often argue in favor of letting millions of people die -- either because it is inevitable or because it is good policy. Doomers do not believe in political or social action. Not surprisingly, they often have a racist or nationalist tinge. In the US, doomers are often associated with "survivalist gun-toting nuts."

Doomers trade in fear and hysteria. They don't keep current, except for reading an occasional article by Kunstler or Ruppert. Their conversation is full of images of riots and cannibals, guns and survival rations.

[bart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MQ', '.')..since I cater to none of these positions, I wonder why so many call me a doomer?

[JudoCow09]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', ' ')Doomers believe there is no use trying. Any efforts to improve the situation are futile or even counter-productive. Doomers often argue in favor of letting millions of people die -- either because it is inevitable or because it is good policy. Doomers do not believe in political or social action. Not surprisingly, they often have a racist or nationalist tinge. In the US, doomers are often associated with "survivalist gun-toting nuts."

Doomers trade in fear and hysteria. They don't keep current, except for reading an occasional article by Kunstler or Ruppert. Their conversation is full of images of riots and cannibals, guns and survival rations.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MQ', '.')..since I cater to none of these positions, I wonder why so many call me a doomer?

[bart]

MQ, what about moving into the big leagues? Polishing some of your best work, getting feedback from people you respect, and going for publication?

I warn you though. You can't blame your readers; that's bush league. If there is widespread misunderstanding, the good writer will figure out what went wrong and fix it.

Best of luck... and GO FOR IT!

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', ' ')
It's not an easy job, but that's why we're paid the big bucks. (joke)

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JudoCow09', ' ')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Montequest', 'H')mmm...since I cater to none of these positions, I wonder why so many call me a doomer?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', 'M')Q, what about moving into the big leagues? Polishing some of your best work, getting feedback from people you respect, and going for publication?

I warn you though. You can't blame your readers; that's bush league. If there is widespread misunderstanding, the good writer will figure out what went wrong and fix it.

Best of luck... and GO FOR IT!

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', ' ')
It's not an easy job, but that's why we're paid the big bucks. (joke)

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'H')mmm...since I cater to none of these positions, I wonder why so many call me a doomer?

What I have faith in is that man will try to maintain the status quo.

That's a doomer view? Hardly.

[bart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MQ', 'I')deologically, we need an ecological worldview; a paradigm shift in our thinking about the world about us. Which brings us to a conundrum: it is difficult, if almost impossible (even in scientific discussions) for people of one paradigm to communicate with those who perceive and reason in terms dictated by another different paradigm. We all need to be on the same page and we are not

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', ' ') As far as PO, I am Mr. Nobody, yet I've been interviewed by a national magazine and the SF Chronicle, and and been asked to be on a radio program (local).

The biggest thing holding us back now is our own preconceptions.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'H')mmm...since I cater to none of these positions, I wonder why so many call me a doomer?

What I have faith in is that man will try to maintain the status quo.

That's a doomer view? Hardly.

[johnmarkos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'H')e suggested to Savinar that it would be a good thing if they could use the Freedom Of Information Act to get this infinite energy source out in the open and available for our general use. Savinar replied that an infinite energy source would doom us all to totally trashing the planet in short order, or words to that effect. Most people hearing that would likely assume that Savinar hates humanity and wants us all to die.

[bart]

Anything but doomer!

As MQ just said, it's very hard to put across the new paradigm -- no point in making it any harder with a negative label.

And as PMS points out that, there is a constant danger that people will hit us with that concept.

Here are some terms used by other people:

Powerdown -- Richard Heinberg
The Prosperous Way Down -- H.T. Odum
Energy Descent - David Holmgren
Ecotopia - Ernest Callenbach
permaculture
sustainability

From my experience in journalism & public relations, some suggestions.

The connotations of the terms used make a tremendous difference.

With the general public, I like to use the terms "sustainabiity," "end of cheap energy" and "low energy future". "Green" is a nice general term.

I would NEVER use the terms die-off, doom or doomer. On this board, we're accustomed to the terms and we bandy them abound freely. It's understandable, but I would suggest not using them even here. Newbies, researchers and reporters come here for background, and those terms are an instant turn-off.

If you want people to recognize an unpalatable truth, don't use inflammatory language. Instead, be matter-of-fact and understated. Don't browbeat the reader, but show him the information.

The dieoff site has a very effective beginning -- a series of graphs, mapping for example the rise of population with the rise in the use of fossil fuel.

The most devastating talk I've heard is the lecture by Nathan Lewis from Cal Tech about the limited energy sources on earth, and the possible consequences of global warming. With ineluctable logic, he built up his case with the tone of a doctor discussing a patient's broken leg.

Don't make negative predictions about things you're not certain of. At the moment, the chance for a good US energy policy look piss poor. But we don't know what will happen in a year, so we shouldn't say things like "It's impossible."

Most importantly, we've got to offer hope and a direction for people to go.

Imagine how you would like the doctor to tell you that your husband or wife has cancer.

[PenultimateManStanding]

The word 'doomer' could perhaps be defined thus: efforts to ameliorate the situation won't work. Heinberg refers to 'powerdown'. The doomer says it won't work. There is no solution, is the doomer response to anything suggested to help us get through the hard times. My argument against doomerism is that it is a death sentence against humanity even though it is not yet a certainty. I can sympathize with the unabashed doomers in this sense: the evidence is strong that our fate is grim indeed, for all the arguments which we all know already. The doomer feels that pollyannaism is cowardly - face up to it he says. But we just don't really know. I like Monte's term 'optimistic doomer'. There's a chance we can get through this. Bart, your concerns about public perceptions are natural given your line of work. I'm not approaching this from the same angle though. I'm only talking to fellow peakoilers. Visitors to this site can think what they want to. (BTW, I asked Jato once why he kept on going through the same arguments over and over as we all tend to do here. His answer was: therapy)

[Z]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', 'D')on't make negative predictions about things you're not certain of.